Age of marriage as per quran

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Chief Chingachgook
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Chief Chingachgook »

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A virgin should not be married till she is asked for her consent; and the matron should not be married till she is asked whether she agrees to marry or not." It was asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How will the virgin express her consent?" He said, "By keeping silent." Some people said, "If a virgin is not asked for her consent and she is not married, and then a man, by playing a trick presents two false witnesses that he has married her with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage as a true one, and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, then there is no harm for him to consummate his marriage with her and the marriage is regarded as valid." [Sahih Bukhari. Book: 86, Hadith: 98]
Thanks KhaliL.

This is outrageous!!!!! This is satanic !!! :grr: These Islamic scholars, if they were not influenced by Satan, they would not have listed this Al-hah-hah-hah-dith as sahih. It is clearly cheating, misleading and degrading to women. It is injustice in the greatest degree! Silence means "Yes", cheating means "consent" ..... this is Satanic. :evil2:

When are you going to leave Islam Parvez? It is a shame to be party to such a shameful, evil act !!!
I was chingachgook in the old forum. In this new Reservation forum I was made a Chief :whistling:
parvez mushtaq
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

dear chin,haik,Pragmatist

let me tell one thing and pl keep this in your mind till you die

you got all the rights in the world to think yourself as the most brilliant person in the world , but at the same time you cannot think that the person sitting in front of you is a idiot , neither you have that right nor you can think like that

lets see our business now

before this i want to qoute what haik said
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
now , read my post
you are giving the legal age for marriage but aksel was more sensible than you haik
he said 15
but i say , you cannot fix a age for marriage
i will explain with two example

one
decades ago , there was a madwad (people from rajastan) family residing near by , and they had two girls , one of 7 and other was 13 . suddely their father died and girl was made to take care of her father's business even at age of 13 since her mother was a illiterate
even at that age she did made that business effectively with all responsibilities ( it was a distribution agency of COAT thread)
since her mother felt insecure they made that girl to get married at 15
even now she is running the same business and living a happy a married life
my point is , situations make a person to learn things fast

two

their was a anglo Indian girl studying with me ,it was in the eight standard (the age will be about 13) the wonder was she got pregnant and her parents forced marriage upon her but even now she is happily married with the same guy
my point is , marriage teaches responsibilities

so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
i never lied , haik
you asked for the tafsir , i gave you from the same source which you picked for your manipulation ,
did you gave any account on that , haik

you asked me quranic verse which i did gave , did you gave any account for that either
and moreover ,can you able to prove me the verse 65-4 sanctions child marriage
but i proved i never gave sanctions for child marriage by tafsir and quran itself
now you are hiding behind the veil of ISLAMIC Scholars in order to justify your claim
do you mean to say , immaterial of what that verse says , we should take what those scholars said
it was their view point haik
since they matches your opinion you will fight for them
is this not the case of shameless opportunistic , haik
why don't you take the translation of rashid khalifa in that case
you don't have this case itself as per him , haik
what account your are going to give for his translation
will you join with Muslims here to say rashid khalifa was wrong in his translation
you cannot be so pendulous, haik
as a replay to this post , you man asked me to define marriage

as the answer , he started preaching me hahahha aa :roflmao:

are you people gving me a lolly pop

i want answers as per the topic , i will not entertain any thing which deviate the topic :tongueout:

once again i want to quote the haik saying
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
hope you people see what i am saying now
i am not a idiot here neither i think you are

with regards

Mushtaq
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Chief Chingachgook
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Chief Chingachgook »

Parvez wrote: you got all the rights in the world to think yourself as the most brilliant person in the world , but at the same time you cannot think that the person sitting in front of you is a idiot , neither you have that right nor you can think like that
Who says that I have no right to think? Who knows what I am thinking? Who is going to stop me from thinking, Mr. PissBUH?
so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
The mad mad madwad girl and the Anglo Sexon Indian girl are isolated and extraordinary cases. The sample is way too small to make a conclusion on humanity. Besides, the girls were already in their teens.
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
Go ahead marry a baby girl! After all Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini sanctioned it! :whistling:
I was chingachgook in the old forum. In this new Reservation forum I was made a Chief :whistling:
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KhaliL
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by KhaliL »

Hello parvez mushtaq,
parvez mushtaq wrote:dear chin,haik,Pragmatist

let me tell one thing and pl keep this in your mind till you die
Oh…dear. Please don’t be goddamn sappy. We can sort out everything reasonably.
parvez mushtaq wrote: you got all the rights in the world to think yourself as the most brilliant person in the world , but at the same time you cannot think that the person sitting in front of you is a idiot , neither you have that right nor you can think like that
Again, nothing personal.., though I could enjoy the rights of putting myself on air, I never tried it so far. All I did is presented some facts with enough documentation. What makes you think I am belittling you? Did I ever underestimate your potentials? NO. I consented to your brilliance but added you should divert your potentials to a more productive conduit.

I don’t understand what makes you personalize matters to the extent of deducing I am attacking you in person when in fact I am dead focused on the faith you adhered to.
parvez mushtaq wrote: lets see our business now

before this i want to qoute what haik said
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
Yes. You quoted me right and what is the problem in it? I was just alerting you of the right mode of discussion. Capital lettered sentences are indicative of shouting and what is wrong in asking you to stop the practice?
parvez mushtaq wrote: now , read my post

you are giving the legal age for marriage but aksel was more sensible than you haik
he said 15
but i say , you cannot fix a age for marriage
This is what you want to say but it should not necessarily be right just because you want it to be right. Let me see how you substantiate your statement:
parvez mushtaq wrote: i will explain with two example
one
decades ago , there was a madwad (people from rajastan) family residing near by , and they had two girls , one of 7 and other was 13 . suddely their father died and girl was made to take care of her father's business even at age of 13 since her mother was a illiterate even at that age she did made that business effectively with all responsibilities ( it was a distribution agency of COAT thread)
Alright bob. This is an exceptional case and very interesting too. I admire the courage of this thirteen year old girl who managed to run a business after losing her father at a tender age. She should be exceptionally brilliant. So..?
parvez mushtaq wrote: since her mother felt insecure they made that girl to get married at 15
even now she is running the same business and living a happy a married life
my point is , situations make a person to learn things fast
Since THIS girl showed such an audacity as you illustrated above, she should have developed a sound psychological make up at the age of fifteen through her experience of running a business which only an adult can do. In this case she forced into it and come out successful. The lessons she got from running a serious show in her life for two years, she might have been matured to a level to understand the responsibilities of a married life, she should have developed physiological maturity too when she entered into her teens. But to build up a more sound physiological features her mother should have waited a little more or to be precise over another five years so that her physical structure will be ripened to a satiated level. Anyway, since we have to treat this as an exceptional case, this shortcoming can be neglected.

But remember, this is an exceptional case. We are not going to formulate rules that are meant for a general public in view of an atypical incident. If we do, that would be morally reprehensible. Not all girls should necessarily mature in both physically and psychologically at the age of fifteen. Odds should remain odd.
parvez mushtaq wrote: their was a anglo Indian girl studying with me ,it was in the eight standard (the age will be about 13) the wonder was she got pregnant and her parents forced marriage upon her but even now she is happily married with the same guy
This makes me chuckle. The girl you mentioned is forced because she got pregnant at the age of thirteen which is unusual. For the reason of pregnancy, she is forced to marry the guy who might be responsible for impregnating her at that age. But it was very unfortunate and the guy should have been trialed and punished for abusing a minor. Anyway, the case is EXCEPTIONAL. The incident does not endorse impregnating minors and later marrying them. Do you think it is morally adequate to do so?
parvez mushtaq wrote: my point is , marriage teaches responsibilities
Laughs… If this is the reason you brought two atypical instances, your point is ridiculous to the most. Early marriage in most cases with few (very few) exceptions poses serious health risks. It is very much detrimental to physical and psychological structure of victims. (I say victims because girls forced to marry at a tender age are in fact being victimized) Marriage at the right time is a healthy practice for both individual and society, but at wrong junctures it pays quite negatively to the individual and society vice versa.

Just for example; if you look upon the life of Aisha who had been victimized at a very tender age by being forced into a perverted relationship with an old Muhammad, my point can be easily clarified. The so-called marriage affected her very much to the extent the girl could never develop a sound psychological make up in her life. If you deny this, I challenge you to bring out reasons for the deplorable deeds she committed after the death of her husband. How can you vindicate a woman who caused a rift in your Muslim Ummah to trigger a civil war that ended up in real carnage? Can you forgive her for causing twenty thousand Muslim deaths which brought no fruit at all at the end?

Can you suspend PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) in the case of Aisha? What was the reason for her arming up against an elected Caliph of Islam to cause bloodshed? Can you formulate any theory other than just forgiving her for being a victim of a perverted affair?
parvez mushtaq wrote: so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
I answered to this above and this is not at all a sufficient reason for us to consider early marriages are approvable. We should necessarily fix an age limit for marriage. Evidences from your Islamic history necessitate it. Yes. We should fix an age limit otherwise; it will be catastrophic.
parvez mushtaq wrote: i never lied , haik
you asked for the tafsir , i gave you from the same source which you picked for your manipulation ,
did you gave any account on that , haik
Again, forgive me for saying you are a liar. You brought no Tafsir to back up your claim Quranic verse 65:4 does not approve paedophilia. In fact you omitted obvious references I gave you in my earlier post or posts. You skipped over a very pertinent part of my article. I would bring a very prominent Mufassir’s explanation again only to remind you, your falsification is not going to work at all. This is the Tafsir of Quran Chapter 65: verse 4:

Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. 2:228). The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. [Ibn Kathir on Quran 65:4]

This is Tafsir Ibn Kathir which is not disputed in Islamic tenets. See the bolded part. Please focus on the bolded highlighted part in the Tafsir and tell me what does it mean to you? Do not escape from this.

And I hate to do this, but am forced. The above one was a classic commentary and some will be asking for a newer one. Here I bring Abul Ala Maududi’s Tafsir too to clarify further:

Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible. [Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi: Tafhim al Quran. Commentary on Quran Chapter 65:4]

These are not my falsifications but I am just quoting what your authentic scholars said and approved in the case of a verse in Quran which I put on trial. You can check the sources and confirm it if needed and stop accusing me of misrepresenting. Accusing someone without any basis for accusation is very much contemptible. You should not resort to this foul practice just to make things better.
parvez mushtaq wrote: you asked me quranic verse which i did gave , did you gave any account for that either
and moreover ,can you able to prove me the verse 65-4 sanctions child marriage
Hey man… what is this all about? My article was based on a Quranic verse and you claim bringing the same verse in your defense will be proving your case? Look mate, I brought Quran chapter 65:4 and scrutinized it using the most authentic Islamic sources. I proved the verse is a clear indication of Quran sanctioning pre-pubertal marriage and intercourse which is the most abominable of all sexual crimes. It is paedophilia in its purest sense. IF you just manage to say, I didn’t prove anything and IF that makes you happy, sorry I never deny anyone this privilege. But fact is not going to fade away just because you are embarrassed of it.
parvez mushtaq wrote: but i proved i never gave sanctions for child marriage by tafsir and quran itself
Sorry pal. You are lying. You know it you are lying. You didn’t bring anything to defend your case.
parvez mushtaq wrote: now you are hiding behind the veil of ISLAMIC Scholars in order to justify your claim
do you mean to say , immaterial of what that verse says , we should take what those scholars said
it was their view point haik
This is very funny indeed and if you mean joke, I welcome it. What is more ridiculous than accusing me of using ISLAMIC scholars to prove my case? You mean I should have used Robert Spencer’s or Ali Sina’s explanation? To prove paedophilia in Quran you mean I should have used non-Islamic sources?

Would you please, I repeat please... stop this nonsense? It makes you singularly unattractive;
parvez mushtaq wrote: since they matches your opinion you will fight for them
is this not the case of shameless opportunistic , haik
Look you Muslim opportunist, I am not going to fight for any charlatan Islamic scholars. I don’t give a damn to your Quran or the sources that explain your book. But if you are aimlessly throwing insults against me like this, it is not going to affect me in any way but will put your credibility at stake. Who is opportunistic here? What sucking reason you have to accuse me of being opportunistic when I am going along with your most authentic sources? Isn’t the tag fitting you most when you deliberately evading the points I make through evaluating, interpreting your book in the way it has to be analyzed?
parvez mushtaq wrote: why don't you take the translation of rashid khalifa in that case
you don't have this case itself as per him , haik
what account your are going to give for his translation
will you join with Muslims here to say rashid khalifa was wrong in his translation
Huh… What if I throw this question at you? Are you only happy with Rashad Khalifa? If you are, let me ask you: Do you concur to Rashad Khalifa’s version the last verses of Quran Surah Tauba is not a part of Quran and is a fabrication?
Here is the Rashad Khalifa’s translation of Quran chapter 9. Click the link below and see two verses are missing in his translation.

http://www.quran-islam.org/98.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quran chapter 9 contains 129 verses, but Rashad Khalifa omits last two verses to constrict it into 127 verses. Go figure;

Rest of your post deserves nothing from my part. If you can not discuss preserving manners, it would be better if you stop this business. Truth will hurt and obviously you are hurt by it. But that does not give you any excuse to ridicule the person who speaks TRUTH.

Regards
KhaliL
Pragmatist
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:20 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Pragmatist »

parvez mushtaq wrote:dear chin,haik,Pragmatist

let me tell one thing and pl keep this in your mind till you die

you got all the rights in the world to think yourself as the most brilliant person in the world , but at the same time you cannot think that the person sitting in front of you is a idiot , neither you have that right nor you can think like that

lets see our business now

before this i want to qoute what haik said
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
now , read my post
you are giving the legal age for marriage but aksel was more sensible than you haik
he said 15
but i say , you cannot fix a age for marriage
i will explain with two example

one
decades ago , there was a madwad (people from rajastan) family residing near by , and they had two girls , one of 7 and other was 13 . suddely their father died and girl was made to take care of her father's business even at age of 13 since her mother was a illiterate
even at that age she did made that business effectively with all responsibilities ( it was a distribution agency of COAT thread)
since her mother felt insecure they made that girl to get married at 15
even now she is running the same business and living a happy a married life
my point is , situations make a person to learn things fast

two

their was a anglo Indian girl studying with me ,it was in the eight standard (the age will be about 13) the wonder was she got pregnant and her parents forced marriage upon her but even now she is happily married with the same guy
my point is , marriage teaches responsibilities

so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
i never lied , haik
you asked for the tafsir , i gave you from the same source which you picked for your manipulation ,
did you gave any account on that , haik

you asked me quranic verse which i did gave , did you gave any account for that either
and moreover ,can you able to prove me the verse 65-4 sanctions child marriage
but i proved i never gave sanctions for child marriage by tafsir and quran itself
now you are hiding behind the veil of ISLAMIC Scholars in order to justify your claim
do you mean to say , immaterial of what that verse says , we should take what those scholars said
it was their view point haik
since they matches your opinion you will fight for them
is this not the case of shameless opportunistic , haik
why don't you take the translation of rashid khalifa in that case
you don't have this case itself as per him , haik
what account your are going to give for his translation
will you join with Muslims here to say rashid khalifa was wrong in his translation
you cannot be so pendulous, haik
as a replay to this post , you man asked me to define marriage

as the answer , he started preaching me hahahha aa :roflmao:

are you people gving me a lolly pop

i want answers as per the topic , i will not entertain any thing which deviate the topic :tongueout:

once again i want to quote the haik saying
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
hope you people see what i am saying now
i am not a idiot here neither i think you are

with regards

Mushtaq
If you post stupidity what are we to think except that you are stupid and you have posted some Islamic gems on this thread. They have been copied and will be used to show just how stupid some Mohammedans are.

1) Atheists can't get Married.

2) Menstruation is a DISEASE

Both comments are extremely stupid so I guess that makes you stupid too. Mmm seems we should add liar to your shame too after the BS you just tried with KahiL
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.
Ram
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Ram »

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A virgin should not be married till she is asked for her consent; and the matron should not be married till she is asked whether she agrees to marry or not." It was asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How will the virgin express her consent?" He said, "By keeping silent." Some people said, "If a virgin is not asked for her consent and she is not married, and then a man, by playing a trick presents two false witnesses that he has married her with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage as a true one, and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, then there is no harm for him to consummate his marriage with her and the marriage is regarded as valid." [Sahih Bukhari. Book: 86, Hadith: 98]
I would like to know - how is keeping silent is akin to giving consent? Does that make any sense? I say when a virgin keeps silent, it means she is not giving consent. Perhaps a follower of the Paedophile Prophet will enlighten us.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.
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Cassie
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Cassie »

parvez mushtaq wrote:
Cassie wrote:LOL. Menstruation is a disease? It is your mind that is diseased.
lol, PCOS is a disease, amenorrhea is a disease , but mensuration is not a disease
great
What a diseased mind you have, parvez, to think menstruation is a disease.
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:06 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

parvez mushtaq wrote: lets see our business now

before this i want to qoute what haik said
And stop shouting too using Capitalized letters. Who are you shouting at? None here have vision or comprehension problems.
Yes. You quoted me right and what is the problem in it? I was just alerting you of the right mode of discussion. Capital lettered sentences are indicative of shouting and what is wrong in asking you to stop the practice?
dear haik

you seem to respond only on shouting , but i don't think i am shouting while i use bold letters or big fonts .

parvez mushtaq wrote: now , read my post

you are giving the legal age for marriage but aksel was more sensible than you haik
he said 15
but i say , you cannot fix a age for marriage
This is what you want to say but it should not necessarily be right just because you want it to be right. Let me see how you substantiate your statement:
Alright bob. This is an exceptional case and very interesting too. I admire the courage of this thirteen year old girl who managed to run a business after losing her father at a tender age. She should be exceptionally brilliant. So..?
this is not the exceptional case haik, in India we take the responsibilities at early ages , this is a developing country
yes , you are correct about the marriage , this is a exceptional case .
my aim was only to prove that immaterial of age , life teaches responsibilities in a cruel way , some time by death ,some time by poverty
we mature before the age
Since THIS girl showed such an audacity as you illustrated above, she should have developed a sound psychological make up at the age of fifteen through her experience of running a business which only an adult can do. In this case she forced into it and come out successful. The lessons she got from running a serious show in her life for two years, she might have been matured to a level to understand the responsibilities of a married life, she should have developed physiological maturity too when she entered into her teens. But to build up a more sound physiological features her mother should have waited a little more or to be precise over another five years so that her physical structure will be ripened to a satiated level. Anyway, since we have to treat this as an exceptional case, this shortcoming can be neglected.
yet this is not a exceptional case , situations drag people to the stages where they don't want to be
But remember, this is an exceptional case. We are not going to formulate rules that are meant for a general public in view of an atypical incident. If we do, that would be morally reprehensible. Not all girls should necessarily mature in both physically and psychologically at the age of fifteen. Odds should remain odd.
lol, haik, i feel girls get mature much before boys , at least in India
cos they see the family very closely than boys and cos they get constantly exposed to sexual abuses by males immaterial of age(here i am talking regarding males age)

This makes me chuckle. The girl you mentioned is forced because she got pregnant at the age of thirteen which is unusual. For the reason of pregnancy, she is forced to marry the guy who might be responsible for impregnating her at that age. But it was very unfortunate and the guy should have been trialed and punished for abusing a minor. Anyway, the case is EXCEPTIONAL. The incident does not endorse impregnating minors and later marrying them. Do you think it is morally adequate to do so?
again, you are going by the books sitting in your cozy chair
your luxury makes you to talk like this
but the truth is
both male as well as females are getting lot of sexual exposure nowadays
they can be easily susceptible to sexual activities at very earlier age
and India is no exception and as matter of fact i cannot exclude Muslims as well
this is a special case cos she got pregnant , if not then this is ordinary case
parvez mushtaq wrote: my point is , marriage teaches responsibilities
Laughs… If this is the reason you brought two atypical instances, your point is ridiculous to the most. Early marriage in most cases with few (very few) exceptions poses serious health risks. It is very much detrimental to physical and psychological structure of victims. (I say victims because girls forced to marry at a tender age are in fact being victimized) Marriage at the right time is a healthy practice for both individual and society, but at wrong junctures it pays quite negatively to the individual and society vice versa.
parvez mushtaq wrote: so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
I answered to this above and this is not at all a sufficient reason for us to consider early marriages are approvable. We should necessarily fix an age limit for marriage. Evidences from your Islamic history necessitate it. Yes. We should fix an age limit otherwise; it will be catastrophic.
there nothing to laugh about haik
now we have two age
one for having sex , one for marriage
see , i am not excluding Muslims
there may be exceptional cases who have both the ages as one and i am not excluding Muslims here also
people get responsibilities at early age as well they have sex at very early age
this is common
no law can bind this
now marriage is a very responsible commitment
there are lots of criteria to be fulfilled
but for sex , no criteria
just situations enough
so adultery is very common as far as this goes on between in four walls
but before this was not the case
they had only one age for responsibilities as well as marriage
even in US and UK till 18th century the legal age was 14 for males and 12 for female
perhaps , people of those ages got their both psychological as well as physical stature well balanced for earlier marriages
even those people lived without problems of early marriages
the age of a marriage is rising due to various factors
the effect is , adultery is very common
Again, forgive me for saying you are a liar. You brought no Tafsir to back up your claim Quranic verse 65:4 does not approve paedophilia. In fact you omitted obvious references I gave you in my earlier post or posts. You skipped over a very pertinent part of my article. I would bring a very prominent Mufassir’s explanation again only to remind you, your falsification is not going to work at all. This is the Tafsir of Quran Chapter 65: verse 4:
i never denied about references , haik
but verse 65-4 tells some thing and those references tells some other things
the references that i gave you perfectly matches 65-4
when the verse 65-4 referring to the references that i gave then why you want me accept the other references
it is meaning less to accept
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. 2:228). The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. [Ibn Kathir on Quran 65:4]

This is Tafsir Ibn Kathir which is not disputed in Islamic tenets. See the bolded part. Please focus on the bolded highlighted part in the Tafsir and tell me what does it mean to you? Do not escape from this.

And I hate to do this, but am forced. The above one was a classic commentary and some will be asking for a newer one. Here I bring Abul Ala Maududi’s Tafsir too to clarify further:

Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible. [Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi: Tafhim al Quran. Commentary on Quran Chapter 65:4]

These are not my falsifications but I am just quoting what your authentic scholars said and approved in the case of a verse in Quran which I put on trial. You can check the sources and confirm it if needed and stop accusing me of misrepresenting. Accusing someone without any basis for accusation is very much contemptible. You should not resort to this foul practice just to make things better.
parvez mushtaq wrote: you asked me quranic verse which i did gave , did you gave any account for that either
and moreover ,can you able to prove me the verse 65-4 sanctions child marriage
Hey man… what is this all about? My article was based on a Quranic verse and you claim bringing the same verse in your defense will be proving your case? Look mate, I brought Quran chapter 65:4 and scrutinized it using the most authentic Islamic sources. I proved the verse is a clear indication of Quran sanctioning pre-pubertal marriage and intercourse which is the most abominable of all sexual crimes. It is paedophilia in its purest sense. IF you just manage to say, I didn’t prove anything and IF that makes you happy, sorry I never deny anyone this privilege. But fact is not going to fade away just because you are embarrassed of it.
parvez mushtaq wrote: but i proved i never gave sanctions for child marriage by tafsir and quran itself
Sorry pal. You are lying. You know it you are lying. You didn’t bring anything to defend your case.
parvez mushtaq wrote: now you are hiding behind the veil of ISLAMIC Scholars in order to justify your claim
do you mean to say , immaterial of what that verse says , we should take what those scholars said
it was their view point haik
This is very funny indeed and if you mean joke, I welcome it. What is more ridiculous than accusing me of using ISLAMIC scholars to prove my case? You mean I should have used Robert Spencer’s or Ali Sina’s explanation? To prove paedophilia in Quran you mean I should have used non-Islamic sources?

Would you please, I repeat please... stop this nonsense? It makes you singularly unattractive;
parvez mushtaq wrote: since they matches your opinion you will fight for them
is this not the case of shameless opportunistic , haik
Look you Muslim opportunist, I am not going to fight for any charlatan Islamic scholars. I don’t give a damn to your Quran or the sources that explain your book. But if you are aimlessly throwing insults against me like this, it is not going to affect me in any way but will put your credibility at stake. Who is opportunistic here? What sucking reason you have to accuse me of being opportunistic when I am going along with your most authentic sources? Isn’t the tag fitting you most when you deliberately evading the points I make through evaluating, interpreting your book in the way it has to be analyzed?
parvez mushtaq wrote: why don't you take the translation of rashid khalifa in that case
you don't have this case itself as per him , haik
what account your are going to give for his translation
will you join with Muslims here to say rashid khalifa was wrong in his translation
Huh… What if I throw this question at you? Are you only happy with Rashad Khalifa? If you are, let me ask you: Do you concur to Rashad Khalifa’s version the last verses of Quran Surah Tauba is not a part of Quran and is a fabrication?
Here is the Rashad Khalifa’s translation of Quran chapter 9. Click the link below and see two verses are missing in his translation.

http://www.quran-islam.org/98.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quran chapter 9 contains 129 verses, but Rashad Khalifa omits last two verses to constrict it into 127 verses. Go figure;

Rest of your post deserves nothing from my part. If you can not discuss preserving manners, it would be better if you stop this business. Truth will hurt and obviously you are hurt by it. But that does not give you any excuse to ridicule the person who speaks TRUTH.
again a diversion , and i think deliberate
i brought rashid khalifa to tell you that if some people says (as you told about Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi) that verse 65-4 proves your claim even there are people who say there is no such case in that ayah
nothing else
note that i am not justifying rasihd kalifa
but we have seen very clearly that 65-4 simply a abrogated verse of 2:228
and clearly refers to the tafsir of ibn-kahtir
Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a simpler narration than this one from Ubay bin Ka`b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the `Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, `There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed

and
This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir. And this is the more obvious meaning. Supporting this view is what is reported from Ubay bin Ka`b that he said, "O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,

it was women all the way and not about children

there is not even a slightest indication of child marriage in that verse
yes , you want to justify that verse by sahih hadith regarding ayshe(ra) as most of the Muslims do
this is what i call manipulation as per convenience
why i should believe in this sahih hadith when quran tells me other things THAT TOO WITH SOURCES
i don't think i should believe all sahih hadiths as correct
so your claim was wrong regarding quran sanctions child marriage
you should have titled , sahih hadiths sanctions child marriage and which is true
and even maududhi was carried away by this sahih hadith and even lots of modern Muslims get carried by this but the truth is 65-4 never approved this .
after knowing this if you still want to manipulate with sahih hadith , then you can
after all this is free world , haik

with regards

Mushtaq
(wish i had more time to spent here)
User avatar
Cassie
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Cassie »

We don't strictly need the hadiths to prove that the Quran permits pedophilia. 65-4 clearly says that a Muslim can divorce a female who had not menstruated. There is no mention that this female must be post-pubertal but suffering from a disease. Thus, the general case is that this female is below the age of puberty.
Ram
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Ram »

Cassie wrote:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Cassie wrote:LOL. Menstruation is a disease? It is your mind that is diseased.
lol, PCOS is a disease, amenorrhea is a disease , but mensuration is not a disease
great
What a diseased mind you have, parvez, to think menstruation is a disease.
Menstruation is a disease? Menstruation is a natural function of woman's body.

This is what I like to say to the follower of Paedophile Prophet - Islam is a disease. Islam is a curse on humanity.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

Cassie wrote:We don't strictly need the hadiths to prove that the Quran permits pedophilia. 65-4 clearly says that a Muslim can divorce a female who had not menstruated. There is no mention that this female must be post-pubertal but suffering from a disease. Thus, the general case is that this female is below the age of puberty.
cassie , you seem to forget every thing
pl read this thread once again

with regards

Mushtaq
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

Chief Chingachgook wrote:
Parvez wrote: you got all the rights in the world to think yourself as the most brilliant person in the world , but at the same time you cannot think that the person sitting in front of you is a idiot , neither you have that right nor you can think like that
Who says that I have no right to think? Who knows what I am thinking? Who is going to stop me from thinking, Mr. PissBUH?
so marriage and responsibilities stand at equilibrium to each other
either , a responsible person can marry as in case of madwad girl or a irresponsible person will get responsibilities by marriage as in the case of Anglo Indian girl immaterial of age
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
The mad mad madwad girl and the Anglo Sexon Indian girl are isolated and extraordinary cases. The sample is way too small to make a conclusion on humanity. Besides, the girls were already in their teens.
you cannot fix a age for marriage , practically speaking
Go ahead marry a baby girl! After all Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini sanctioned it! :whistling:
dear chef chin
you can think what you want but don't write thinking others are idiot
do you remember our last encounter chef chin
you were standing naked in front of me begging not to expose your bible and accepting your defeat ,chef chin
seems chef chin suits you
pl give this advice to ram baba also chef chin

with regards

Mushtaq
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

Menstruation is a disease? Menstruation is a natural function of woman's body.

This is what I like to say to the follower of Paedophile Prophet - Islam is a disease. Islam is a curse on humanity.
dear ram baba
this is too much for you
what a worshiper of lingam :roflmao: will understand about islam
lol
any way
i am not here to talk about lingam and cow's urine drink
first will you tell me the process of mensuration dear ram baba
with regards

Mushtaq
User avatar
Cassie
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Cassie »

parvez mushtaq wrote:
Cassie wrote:We don't strictly need the hadiths to prove that the Quran permits pedophilia. 65-4 clearly says that a Muslim can divorce a female who had not menstruated. There is no mention that this female must be post-pubertal but suffering from a disease. Thus, the general case is that this female is below the age of puberty.
cassie , you seem to forget every thing
pl read this thread once again

with regards

Mushtaq
No, I have not forgotten anything. I do remember very clearly that you brought a DISEASE to rationalize 65-4 when every female under the age of puberty is applicable to that verse.

Let me make this clear to you:

1. You have no rational reason to conclude that 65-4 refers to only women suffering disease.

2. you have no rational reason to exclude those 'normal' female who have not reached puberty from that verse.


Got it? You even have to claim that menstruation is a disease. That's how low you will go.
Ram
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Ram »

parvez mushtaq wrote:
Menstruation is a disease? Menstruation is a natural function of woman's body.

This is what I like to say to the follower of Paedophile Prophet - Islam is a disease. Islam is a curse on humanity.
dear ram baba
this is too much for you
what a worshiper of lingam :roflmao: will understand about islam
lol
any way
i am not here to talk about lingam and cow's urine drink
first will you tell me the process of mensuration dear ram baba
with regards

Mushtaq
Better to worship stones in the shape of lingam which is a symbol of procreation and life than to be a follower of a Paedophile Prophet Muhammad, who raped little girl Ayesha, young enough to be his granddaughter. I understand Islam more than you do. If you really understood Islam and understood the Quran, I doubt that you'd remain a Muslim for very long.

Islam is cause of strife in the world today and has been for more than 1400 years. In the name of Allah, the Satan, millions of innocent people have been slaughtered. Look at the state of Muslim countries, Muslims slaughtering Muslims in Pakistan everyday.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.
Universal
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Universal »

Ram wrote:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Menstruation is a disease? Menstruation is a natural function of woman's body.

This is what I like to say to the follower of Paedophile Prophet - Islam is a disease. Islam is a curse on humanity.
dear ram baba
this is too much for you
what a worshiper of lingam :roflmao: will understand about islam
lol
any way
i am not here to talk about lingam and cow's urine drink
first will you tell me the process of mensuration dear ram baba
with regards

Mushtaq
Better to worship stones in the shape of lingam which is a symbol of procreation and life than to be a follower of a Paedophile Prophet Muhammad, who raped little girl Ayesha, young enough to be his granddaughter. I understand Islam more than you do. If you really understood Islam and understood the Quran, I doubt that you'd remain a Muslim for very long.

Islam is cause of strife in the world today and has been for more than 1400 years. In the name of Allah, the Satan, millions of innocent people have been slaughtered. Look at the state of Muslim countries, Muslims slaughtering Muslims in Pakistan everyday.
and what will Muslims who consider a worst criminal ever to walk on this planet to be a perfect example to follow will understand about religion or spirituality at all, just becoz of that criminal you have to defend pedophila here, isn't it?
"All the muslims will assemble before Allah on Judgement Day and ask him to translate the Quran :) "- Charlesmartel FFI
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:06 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

No, I have not forgotten anything. I do remember very clearly that you brought a DISEASE to rationalize 65-4 when every female under the age of puberty is applicable to that verse.

Let me make this clear to you:

1. You have no rational reason to conclude that 65-4 refers to only women suffering disease.

2. you have no rational reason to exclude those 'normal' female who have not reached puberty from that verse.
dear cassie
i have already answered this

lets make it more rational

there is the mentions of three amenorrhoea cases in that verse 65-4

1. menupause
2. preganancy
3 .PCOS and all other categories of Secondary amenorrhoea with the part "those who have not menstruated"

regarding your point no:2

this verse is the abrogated verse of verse 2-228
so there is no question of child before puberty
cos menstruation belongs to female who have attained puberty

Got it? You even have to claim that menstruation is a disease. That's how low you will go.
now it is my turn to ask you GOT IT ?
i dont deny that menstruation is natural body function , cassie
but before that will you care to define your understanding of NATURAL BODY FUNCTION , CASSIE

with regards

Mushtaq
parvez mushtaq
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:06 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

Ram wrote:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Menstruation is a disease? Menstruation is a natural function of woman's body.

This is what I like to say to the follower of Paedophile Prophet - Islam is a disease. Islam is a curse on humanity.
dear ram baba
this is too much for you
what a worshiper of lingam :roflmao: will understand about islam
lol
any way
i am not here to talk about lingam and cow's urine drink
first will you tell me the process of mensuration dear ram baba
with regards

Mushtaq
Better to worship stones in the shape of lingam which is a symbol of procreation and life than to be a follower of a Paedophile Prophet Muhammad, who raped little girl Ayesha, young enough to be his granddaughter. I understand Islam more than you do. If you really understood Islam and understood the Quran, I doubt that you'd remain a Muslim for very long.

Islam is cause of strife in the world today and has been for more than 1400 years. In the name of Allah, the Satan, millions of innocent people have been slaughtered. Look at the state of Muslim countries, Muslims slaughtering Muslims in Pakistan everyday.
dear ram baba, and universal

i don't want to make this thread ugly
we will keep this for some other encounter

with regards

Mushtaq
Pragmatist
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:20 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Pragmatist »

Parvez you are a busted flush you have already made yourself a laughing stock with your "Menstruation is a Disease and Atheists can't get married" stupidity. So don't dig yourself further in to a hole you have already lost all respect on FFI.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.
Universal
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Universal »

parvez mushtaq wrote:dear ram baba, and universal

i don't want to make this thread ugly
we will keep this for some other encounter
there is nothing more uglier than the history of Islam right from the proto-terrorist's time to this time.
"All the muslims will assemble before Allah on Judgement Day and ask him to translate the Quran :) "- Charlesmartel FFI
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