Age of marriage as per quran

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
parvez mushtaq
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

There is still a problem because "Yahidh" is in present tense while "Lam" is negation in past tense. The prefix "YA" to the root word "Haidh" and the suffix "NA" makes the real mess here for translators and Muslims especially. The word is used in third person while being feminine plural. I am focusing on the suffix "NA" for the very reason. Literally the prefix "NA" does not stand for "YET" But without adding yet in the translation, it would be tricky to bring out a coherent sentence in English from the phrase. Or let our Ahmed Bahgat try and come up.

KhaliL
you got it correct haik

it is in the present tense

so it must be

HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED


meaning that the WOMEN WHO HAVE NOT MENSURATED
BECAUSE OF PCOS OR vaginal agenesis ( which are common among ONLY YOUNG WOMEN)

if you say nisa is also refer to female children then dear haik

this verse is the abrogation of 2-228

2-228. And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allâh has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

and pl don't tell me 2-228 is also refer to female children

and so all tafsirs are referring to YOUNG NISA(having PCOS OR vaginal agenesis) AND NOT NISA BEFORE PUBERTY

and this is confirmed by the fact in surah 24-58 and 59

024.058
O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the 'Ishâ' (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allâh makes clear the Ayât (the Verses of this Qur'ân, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

when children before puberty are not allowed to see semi nutity or nudity then where is the question of marrying a girl before puberty

so your verse never prove your claim , haik

with regards

Mushtaq

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Ahmed chose to reply to one of the CCC Life Dismissals
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Ahmed Bahgat,
Well, you need to really STHU and admit your blunder, but we should know by now that a deceiver will never admit it, because your deliberate blunder is part of your plan to deceive others, but again, you will only be able to deceive the already confused FFI goons, you will never be able to deceive a believer
KhaliL FarieL wrote:No comment on your ad hominem rants which are reflective of your frustration.
Well, if you think that I am frustrated then fine, let’s consider it that I am frustrated because the Cyber world allows deceivers like you to mislead others with ease. That is why I am here to expose the likees of you and help those others not to be deceived by you
KhaliL FarieL wrote: I forgot to warn you beforehand abrogating my life dismissal to engage with me will pay you dearly Mr. Bahgat,
Look pal, your life dismissal won’t be abrogated until you apologise for all Muslims publicly on FFI web site, you were the perpetrators not them, on the other hand you should have known by now that with the life dismissals, I still reserve my right to reply to any crap they spew.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: You have not learnt from your past mistakes. Now let me move into business.
My mistakes in your Barbie world?

Well, in the real world everything is documented on my slam dunk show on a few web sites.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:The phrase in trial is “Lam Yahidna”
Really?

What a esteemed friend
KhaliL FarieL wrote:As in the post above to that of yours, I dislodged the phrase into three parts. It was to make sense when a phrase of a Semitic language translates into an entirely different lingo.
Hmmm, but you spewed crap that the Na at the end of Yahddena means “Yet”, which is 100% a bluder, why donot you be a man and admit your blunder first?
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now, I can’t stop calling you a kid; it is not a derogatory term but just consider I am too much fond of you.
Well, being a kid or an adult won’t take of me my brilliance in the Arabic language
KhaliL FarieL wrote:LAM = Negation in the past.
Wrong, Lam can only apply to present tense verbs, IT CAN NEVER APPLY TO PASR TENSE VERBS, see how confused you are?, how about you go and check with an Arabic language teacher, you even do not need a professor to check it with, just a teacher and ask him, can we use LAM with a past tense verbs?, let me tell you the answer that you should hear, BIG NO, in fact it is impossible to happen
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Yahidh = Present tense from the root Haidh
Exactly, can you see how the Lam applies only to present tenses
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Na = Suffix
What happened?

Firstly you tell us that it means “Yet”, now you tell us that it is a suffix?

Well, I agree with you this time that it is a suffix that indicate PLURAL FEMININE VERB
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Can you translate this word to word to English without adding ‘Yet’ in it and make sense of it?
Of course I can:

The do not have their period
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Do you want to see how it goes:
How about you see above how it went?
KhaliL FarieL wrote:“Not in the past to menstruate”
Wrong

It has to be like this:

Lam Yahiddna MIN QABL

Or

Lam Yahiddna ABADA,

In both cases, the key words Min Qabl and Abada, must indicate that the denial of Lam is not only for present rather for present and past
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Does it make sense to you?
Read above then try to learn something to clear you obvious ignorance
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Perhaps; since you are not a native speaker of English and your skills in this beautiful language is very poor.
Who cares abot English you fool while we are discussing Arabic words?

Are you that hard core of a deceiver?

Well, let me expose you with ease:

If you one day visited me at my home (I am sure it will never happen because you will not be welcomed until you apologise to all Muslims on FFI), then I asked you in Arabic:

Inta Akalat Al-Fitar, i.e. did you eat your breakfast

If you did not have your breakfast then you must answer in this way:

La’a, Lam Akul Al-Fitar, i.e. No, I did not eat my breakfast

Now look again and see for yourself that you only denied the most recent (last) breakfast, on the other hand you can not be denying that you ate your breakfast yesterday and the day before or any past day for that matter

And that should be enough to expose your stupidity and the stupidity of those goons who support your clear crap
KhaliL FarieL wrote:But ask any native speaker whether the above is grammatically correct sentence or not. It is NOT until you insert the term “YET” and retranslate it in an appropriate mode. I would do it for you and consider this free.
Dismissed
KhaliL FarieL wrote:“Not menstruated yet”

See, it makes perfect sense;
Only for the fools like you, however in the real words of the Arabic words, YET CAN NENER EXIST WITH LAM unless the words: Min Qabl or Abada are used

Why don’t you dismiss yourself? You are a real embarrassment to yourself indeed
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now, let me challenge you to translate the Arabic phrase “Lam Yahidhna” literally into English without adding “YET”. Let me see how far you can move on.
But I already did you confused, here it is again:

They do not have their periods
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Waiting
KhaliL
Well, you do not need to wait, you may check in back with your inmates, also as a punishment for your deception, you must wipe the FFI floors for the next two weeks, don’t worry if you can’t find a dirty rug, you may use yourself

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CoolView
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by CoolView »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Ahmed chose to reply to one of the CCC Life Dismissals
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Ahmed Bahgat,
Well, you need to really STHU and admit your blunder, but we should know by now that a deceiver will never admit it, because your deliberate blunder is part of your plan to deceive others, but again, you will only be able to deceive the already confused FFI goons, you will never be able to deceive a believer
KhaliL FarieL wrote:No comment on your ad hominem rants which are reflective of your frustration.
Well, if you think that I am frustrated then fine, let’s consider it that I am frustrated because the Cyber world allows deceivers like you to mislead others with ease. That is why I am here to expose the likees of you and help those others not to be deceived by you
KhaliL FarieL wrote: I forgot to warn you beforehand abrogating my life dismissal to engage with me will pay you dearly Mr. Bahgat,
Look pal, your life dismissal won’t be abrogated until you apologise for all Muslims publicly on FFI web site, you were the perpetrators not them, on the other hand you should have known by now that with the life dismissals, I still reserve my right to reply to any crap they spew.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: You have not learnt from your past mistakes. Now let me move into business.
My mistakes in your Barbie world?

Well, in the real world everything is documented on my slam dunk show on a few web sites.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:The phrase in trial is “Lam Yahidna”
Really?

What a esteemed friend
KhaliL FarieL wrote:As in the post above to that of yours, I dislodged the phrase into three parts. It was to make sense when a phrase of a Semitic language translates into an entirely different lingo.
Hmmm, but you spewed crap that the Na at the end of Yahddena means “Yet”, which is 100% a bluder, why donot you be a man and admit your blunder first?
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now, I can’t stop calling you a kid; it is not a derogatory term but just consider I am too much fond of you.
Well, being a kid or an adult won’t take of me my brilliance in the Arabic language
KhaliL FarieL wrote:LAM = Negation in the past.
Wrong, Lam can only apply to present tense verbs, IT CAN NEVER APPLY TO PASR TENSE VERBS, see how confused you are?, how about you go and check with an Arabic language teacher, you even do not need a professor to check it with, just a teacher and ask him, can we use LAM with a past tense verbs?, let me tell you the answer that you should hear, BIG NO, in fact it is impossible to happen
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Yahidh = Present tense from the root Haidh
Exactly, can you see how the Lam applies only to present tenses
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Na = Suffix
What happened?

Firstly you tell us that it means “Yet”, now you tell us that it is a suffix?

Well, I agree with you this time that it is a suffix that indicate PLURAL FEMININE VERB
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Can you translate this word to word to English without adding ‘Yet’ in it and make sense of it?
Of course I can:

The do not have their period
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Do you want to see how it goes:
How about you see above how it went?
KhaliL FarieL wrote:“Not in the past to menstruate”
Wrong

It has to be like this:

Lam Yahiddna MIN QABL

Or

Lam Yahiddna ABADA,

In both cases, the key words Min Qabl and Abada, must indicate that the denial of Lam is not only for present rather for present and past
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Does it make sense to you?
Read above then try to learn something to clear you obvious ignorance
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Perhaps; since you are not a native speaker of English and your skills in this beautiful language is very poor.
Who cares abot English you fool while we are discussing Arabic words?

Are you that hard core of a deceiver?

Well, let me expose you with ease:

If you one day visited me at my home (I am sure it will never happen because you will not be welcomed until you apologise to all Muslims on FFI), then I asked you in Arabic:

Inta Akalat Al-Fitar, i.e. did you eat your breakfast

If you did not have your breakfast then you must answer in this way:

La’a, Lam Akul Al-Fitar, i.e. No, I did not eat my breakfast

Now look again and see for yourself that you only denied the most recent (last) breakfast, on the other hand you can not be denying that you ate your breakfast yesterday and the day before or any past day for that matter

And that should be enough to expose your stupidity and the stupidity of those goons who support your clear crap
KhaliL FarieL wrote:But ask any native speaker whether the above is grammatically correct sentence or not. It is NOT until you insert the term “YET” and retranslate it in an appropriate mode. I would do it for you and consider this free.
Dismissed
KhaliL FarieL wrote:“Not menstruated yet”

See, it makes perfect sense;
Only for the fools like you, however in the real words of the Arabic words, YET CAN NENER EXIST WITH LAM unless the words: Min Qabl or Abada are used

Why don’t you dismiss yourself? You are a real embarrassment to yourself indeed
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now, let me challenge you to translate the Arabic phrase “Lam Yahidhna” literally into English without adding “YET”. Let me see how far you can move on.
But I already did you confused, here it is again:

They do not have their periods
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Waiting
KhaliL
Well, you do not need to wait, you may check in back with your inmates, also as a punishment for your deception, you must wipe the FFI floors for the next two weeks, don’t worry if you can’t find a dirty rug, you may use yourself
Cool and you have destroyed the poster's stupid argument with utter destruction and it is clear that the poster knows nothing about Arabic grammar, zilsch.
It has to be like this:

Lam Yahiddna MIN QABL

Or

Lam Yahiddna ABADA,

In both cases, the key words Min Qabl and Abada, must indicate that the denial of Lam is not only for present rather for present and past
Cool and correct example.

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KhaliL
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by KhaliL »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, you need to really STHU and admit your blunder, but we should know by now that a deceiver will never admit it, because your deliberate blunder is part of your plan to deceive others, but again, you will only be able to deceive the already confused FFI goons, you will never be able to deceive a believer
Ahmed Bahgat,

You proved the master deceiver here like your pimping Allah who runs a brothel upstairs. You were the one who brought your pet BMZ in three nicks here to cheer you when you found none here to cheer you up. The whole forum witnessed to it. You ran all over the forum, all over the net to discredit me but you could not vibrate me a little. So stop spewing sh!t. Your mind is retarded because of Quran and the most interesting factor here is you do not know how on the verge of collapse are you now.

I offered you civility but if you are not in the same mode, remember you are not an atheist but I AM. I can attack your Quran, your God and whatever holy to you and all what you can do is turning towards me in person which I don’t care a bit. Keep in mind that you can not even prove your Muhammad was not a bastard. So, shut the Fu**ing Quran up.


AhmedBahgat wrote:
Look pal, your life dismissal won’t be abrogated until you apologise for all Muslims publicly on FFI web site, you were the perpetrators not them, on the other hand you should have known by now that with the life dismissals, I still reserve my right to reply to any crap they spew. ,
Who cares you and your dismissals? I don’t care a bit of them just like I don’t care any sh!t of your Quran.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Hmmm, but you spewed crap that the Na at the end of Yahddena means “Yet”, which is 100% a bluder, why donot you be a man and admit your blunder first?
Because, I am not like you; if I blundered I will admit it. But that was not a blunder, but it was essential to make sense of the phrase.


AhmedBahgat wrote: Wrong, Lam can only apply to present tense verbs, IT CAN NEVER APPLY TO PASR TENSE VERBS, see how confused you are?, how about you go and check with an Arabic language teacher, you even do not need a professor to check it with, just a teacher and ask him, can we use LAM with a past tense verbs?, let me tell you the answer that you should hear, BIG NO, in fact it is impossible to happen,
NO you Mobot. Lam is negation in the past. Your amnesic brain might have forgotten it, but you acceded to it in the past response. “La” is usually used to negate something in present tense while “Lan” is for future.
AhmedBahgat wrote: Exactly, can you see how the Lam applies only to present tenses
Wrong. Lam is negation in past. See above.

Ahmed Bahgat wrote:What happened?

Firstly you tell us that it means “Yet”, now you tell us that it is a suffix?
Chweeech... Do you know what does it mean suffix? Don't spew your ignorance here. Google can help you in such cases to know of these terms which can not find in your decrepit seventh century hate manual.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Can you translate this word to word to English without adding ‘Yet’ in it and make sense of it?
Of course I can:

The do not have their period
Droool…. What is this? Gibberish..? It is not English.

What does it mean “The do not have their period?”

AhmedBahgat wrote: How about you see above how it went?
It went pathetic… very pathetic indeed. But not a big issue since you are more than pathetic;

AhmedBahgat wrote: Wrong

It has to be like this:

Lam Yahiddna MIN QABL

Or

Lam Yahiddna ABADA,

In both cases, the key words Min Qabl and Abada, must indicate that the denial of Lam is not only for present rather for present and past
See you Mobot, I need you to translate the Quranic phrase accurately to English. You failed above miserably, so try again rebooting your brain. I am not asking you to translate English words into Arabic. Who the hell needs them here?

AhmedBahgat wrote: Who cares abot English you fool while we are discussing Arabic words?
I care because we are talking of English translation of an Arabic Phrase.
AhmedBahgat wrote: Are you that hard core of a deceiver?
Not like your Allah who is the biggest DECEIVER.
AhmedBahgat wrote: Well, let me expose you with ease:

If you one day visited me at my home (I am sure it will never happen because you will not be welcomed until you apologise to all Muslims on FFI),
I will send my dog to your house and it will apologise. Would that be okay with you?
Pathetic;

AhmedBahgat wrote: Only for the fools like you, however in the real words of the Arabic words, YET CAN NENER EXIST WITH LAM unless the words: Min Qabl or Abada are used

Why don’t you dismiss yourself? You are a real embarrassment to yourself indeed
I am asking you to translate a Quranic verse into English. Don’t squirm again. Answer me properly.

AhmedBahgat wrote: But I already did you confused, here it is again:

They do not have their periods
Where does it mean PERIODS? Where is the noun form used? As far as Arabic word concerned it is a feminine form of verb is used, so it should be in a tense. Either you can make it in past, present or future, but not noun. Here in above you used “Periods” which is noun.

Tone up your English and try again. Challenge remains.

Come on... be a man with dignity. Otherwise, delve into your delusional world where you have high bosomed virgins and pearly boys in your brothel keeper allah’s paradise.

KhaliL

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KhaliL
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by KhaliL »

parvez mushtaq wrote:
There is still a problem because "Yahidh" is in present tense while "Lam" is negation in past tense. The prefix "YA" to the root word "Haidh" and the suffix "NA" makes the real mess here for translators and Muslims especially. The word is used in third person while being feminine plural. I am focusing on the suffix "NA" for the very reason. Literally the prefix "NA" does not stand for "YET" But without adding yet in the translation, it would be tricky to bring out a coherent sentence in English from the phrase. Or let our Ahmed Bahgat try and come up.

KhaliL
you got it correct haik

it is in the present tense

so it must be

HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED
So, it means all your past and current Mufassirs went wrong in assessing the phrase in Quran but YOU got it right? What about dealing the Mufassirs' explanations on it? I am not the one written all of them. They are your authentic scholars who studied Quran in light of several hadiths and other sources for years and years and came up with their Tafsirs. Do you want to disregard them all?

All Mufassirs ranging from Ibn Abbas of the era of Muhammad to Abul Aala Maududi of current times explained the phrase "Lam yahidhna" denotes "Those females who have not reached puberty". What makes you disregard YOUR most authentic Mufassirs' explanation and come up with your convoluted one?

IXOLITE offered you a Sahih Hadith. I post it again for your kind revision:

Narrated Sahl bin Sad: While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, "Marry her to me O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet asked (him), "Have you got anything?" He said, "I have got nothing." The Prophet said, "Not even an iron ring?" He Sad, "Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half." The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse). [Sahih Bukhari. Book: 62, Hadith:63

I don't have time to deal with your amateurishness man. You made all a mess in our previous encounter on "Islam & adultery" and had to leave the thread humiliated. Don't strive for more humiliation, your Islam is indefensible. More you try to make sense of it, deeper your fall will be. So, wake up and smell the coffee. Once you break the shackles, there is a wonderful world out waiting for you.

You will not get to the allurement of freedom until you experience it. There is freedom outside your religion. All you have to do is shed your irrational fear for hell and obsession for high bosomed virgins. Can't you do it?

Regards
KhaliL
Last edited by KhaliL on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ixolite
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by ixolite »

CoolView wrote:Cool. Enjoyd reading your comments. It s nice to see an Arabic expert who can comment with authority.
Back already, BMZ? :roll: You really can't get enough of this "pig sty", eh? :heh:

Btw, to quote a guy in a movie:

You are so far stuck up his ass now that one doesn't know where the one ends and the other one starts. :whistling:

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KhaliL
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by KhaliL »

ixolite wrote:
CoolView wrote:Cool. Enjoyd reading your comments. It s nice to see an Arabic expert who can comment with authority.
Back already, BMZ? :roll: You really can't get enough of this "pig sty", eh? :heh:

Btw, to quote a guy in a movie:

You are so far stuck up his ass now that one doesn't know where the one ends and the other one starts. :whistling:
CoolView!! I already sensed the BMZ, the troll master in him. But I feel pity for him now since he does not have a life out of this forum. Let him live ixolite. Pathetic to the most is who brings him in again and again. See how pitiful two lives are..!!!

KhaliL

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ixolite
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by ixolite »

parvez mushtaq wrote:my question was

which part of that ayah do those tafsirs are referring

are they referring to
065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, .........

or they refering to

065.004
YUSUFALI:......... for those who have no courses .......
The Ibn Kathir obviously refers to both parts, as the title is:
The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses
Since this is about the age of marriage I highlighted the parts which are about the pre-pubescent wives. Ace also highlighted the parts about pre-pubescent wives. This should be clear since it reads:
The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation.
those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age
What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months.
Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet]
But I am sure, all those islamic scholars have no idea and only you and your co-apologists have the right interpretation, am I correct? :turban:

parvez mushtaq
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

dear haik (be cool)
So, it means all your past and current Mufassirs went wrong in assessing the phrase in Quran but you got it right? What about dealing the Mufassirs' explanations on it?

All Mufassirs ranging from Ibn Abbas of the era of Muhammad to Abul Aala Maududi of current times explained the phrase "Lam yahidhna" denotes "Those females who have not reached puberty". What makes you disregard YOUR most authentic Mufassirs' explanation and come up with your convoluted one?
i never said they were wrong , your understanding is wrong

let me take YOUR POSTINGS OF in that article

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) (this is the case of PCOS or vaginal agenesis) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise[Quran. Surah al-Talaaq 65:4]

[Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Uthaymeen, Majmoo'at As'ilah tahumm al-Usrah al-Muslimah, p. 61-63.]

First of all, most prominent of all Mufassirs (Quran interpreters) Ibn Kathir:

Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. 2:228). The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their Iddah is three months like those in menopause. [Ibn Kathir on Quran 65:4]

AND YOU CONVENIENTLY OMITTED THIS (IN YOUR ARTICLE)FROM THE SAME TAFSIR OF IBN KATHIR WHICH CLEARLY PROVES I AM

100% CORRECT


And this is the more obvious meaning. Supporting this view is what is reported from Ubay bin Ka`b that he said, "O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a simpler narration than this one from Ubay bin Ka`b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the `Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, `There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed,

tell me where is girls before puberty is here

if you think WOMEN WITHOUT MENSURATION ARE FEMALE CHILD THEN IT IS NOT THE PROBLEM OF QURAN DEAR haik

EVERYWHERE IT IS young WOMEN,WOMEN WITH menopause WOMEN with pregnancy
IT IS WOMEN ALL THE WAY
ONLY YOUNG WOMEN HAVE PCOS and vaginal agenesis

i am going hand in hand with muffasirs haik

only you are going away from them by you wicked fabrication
I don't have time to deal with your amateurishness man. You made all a mess in our previous encounter and had to leave it humiliated. Don't strive for more humiliation. This is a very friendly advice.

Regards
KhaliL
cool haik, where is my verse , are you still finding or searching for a scholar , lol
this is the second time you are facing a humiliating defeat haik
be cool , frustration will never give you anything haik
this is my friendly suggestion

with regards

Mushtaq

parvez mushtaq
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by parvez mushtaq »

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Yahidh = Present tense from the root Haidh
Exactly, can you see how the Lam applies only to present tenses
KhaliL FarieL wrote:Na = Suffix
What happened?

Firstly you tell us that it means “Yet”, now you tell us that it is a suffix?


Well, I agree with you this time that it is a suffix that indicate PLURAL FEMININE VERB
i want to talk about that Ahmed , but i thought why to bother a old man (since he said i am the age of his son once)

but you leave nothing , lol

great Ahmed

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by sum »

As far as I am concerned, this matter destroys any credibility in the Koran and, therefore, Islam. Here, we are still arguing about what it all means when Allah says that the Koran is clear. If Allah had existed, he could have revealed his guidance in a simple, clear and concise manner where there would be no misunderstanding of its meaning.

Was Allah, if he existed, capable of this? If he was, why did he not do it?

These so called revelations are the hallmark of a fallible and disorganised human mind.

sum

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Cassie
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Cassie »

Ahmed Bahgat wrote:Wrong, Lam can only apply to present tense verbs, IT CAN NEVER APPLY TO PASR TENSE VERBS, see how confused you are?, how about you go and check with an Arabic language teacher, you even do not need a professor to check it with, just a teacher and ask him, can we use LAM with a past tense verbs?, let me tell you the answer that you should hear, BIG NO, in fact it is impossible to happen
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Yahidh = Present tense from the root Haidh
Exactly, can you see how the Lam applies only to present tenses
Really, Ahmed. Don't you get tired of repeating your propositions even when they have been debunked? Isn't it childish to repeat what everyone knows is false?

Remember Julian Charteris and how he totally debunked you???


Ahmed's lam explanation debunked
Julian Charteris wrote:2:236 says otherwise.

al-Baqarah 2:236
لاجناح عليكم ان طلقتم النساء مالم تمسوهن او تفرضوا لهن فريضة ومتعوهن على الموسع قدره وعلى المقتر قدره متاعا بالمعروف حقا على المحسنين

La junaha AAalaykum in tallaqtumu alnnisaa ma lam tamassoohunna aw tafridoo lahunna fareedatan wamattiAAoohunna AAala almoosiAAi qadaruhu waAAala almuqtiri qadaruhu mataAAan bialmaAAroofi haqqan AAala almuhsineena

No offense/guilt/sin (is) on you if you divorced the women as long as you did not touch them (F), or specify/stipulate for them (F) a specification/stipulation (dowry) , and give them (F) alimony on the enriched/rich, his capability , and on the tight/restricted (poor) his capability alimony with the kindness/generosity , dutifully/deservedly/rightfully on the good doers .


It doesn't make sense that lam is only negation in the present but not past tense.


we see the negative particle “lam (2)” is a negation particle and it would flip the tense of the verb which proceeds it. So in this case we see the particle negation “lam” precedes the verb” takoonoo” which is in the plural-present tense of the verb “to be-takoon” but because it is preceded by the negation particle “lam” then its tense is flipped to the past tense which would transform the meaning in the past tense and it would make the event continuous (3) in addition to the past tense. Then the events which are being negated are to be spread along the entire dimension of time that is past, present and future. This follows that the meaning of this verse becomes far more profound than simply negating an act of learning in a given segment of time. This follows that the possibility of attaining such knowledge is being negated in the absolute sense that is not likely to have happened in the past, the present nor the future.
http://katib.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/t ... knowledge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is more evidence that you're wrong.

http://arabic.tripod.com/Negation4.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tense
Usage
Word

Verbal Sentences
Nominal Sentences

Past
Before verbs only

(imperfective verb only)
lam
لَمْ

Before verbs only

(imperfective verb only)
lammaa
لَمَّاْ

All Tenses
Before verbs only

(perfective & imperfective verb)
Before nouns or verbs

(perfective & imperfective verb)
maa
مَاْ

Before verbs only

(perfective & imperfective verb)
Before nouns or verbs

(perfective & imperfective verb)
'in
إِنْ


Those are the negative words that can be seen in negative sentences in the past tense. They are all particles. The first two are different from the other two in that they require the verb after them to be an imperfective verb in the jussive mood, even though the sentence will be in the past tense.
Note how lam لَمْ makes the jussive verb into a past tense.
Lam لَمْ is the negative particle that is used to negate past tense events. However, it is used only with an imperfective verb and can never be used with perfective verbs.
http://arabic.tripod.com/Moods2.htm

see also: "A Reference Grammar of Modern Arabic"

It doesn't matter that the lam precedes a PRESENT tense because it converts it into a PAST tense.

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Cassie
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Cassie »

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
Aksel Ankersen wrote:Hello parvez musthaq

Lam Yahidna ( لم يحضن ) = "not menstruated"

There is no specific particle for "yet" in the phrase, but the word Lam ( لم ) specifically negates the past.

A more accurate translation might be "never menstruated"

There is still a problem because "Yahidh" is in present tense while "Lam" is negation in past tense. The prefix "YA" to the root word "Haidh" and the suffix "NA" makes the real mess here for translators and Muslims especially. The word is used in third person while being feminine plural. I am focusing on the suffix "NA" for the very reason. Literally the prefix "NA" does not stand for "YET" But without adding yet in the translation, it would be tricky to bring out a coherent sentence in English from the phrase. Or let our Ahmed Bahgat try and come up.

KhaliL
Quite correct.
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you that fool to think that you can fool the novice Arabic speakers?, well you may only further confuse the already confused goons in here, but do not dare to do it with any Arabic speaker you conman

The Na at the end of Yahiddna is called Noon Al Niswah you fool, i.e. the Noon for the feminine plural, which must be added to any VERB if we are talking about a group of women performing such verb
Plain wrong.


For your information, the Ya-Stem-Na form is called the THIRD PERSON FEMININE PLURAL IMPERFECTIVE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_grammar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The imperfective conveys the sense of an action that is incomplete but ongoing. Hence, if you include a negation of the past tense "lam" with it, you have a negation that is incomplete but ongoing. Hence, lam yahidna must mean that the 'non-menstruation' state is still incomplete and ongoing - i.e. the girl has never menstruated and is still not menstruating. Thus, you don't need a literal 'yet' to convey this meaning because the IMPERFECTIVE NEGATION conveys it.

Another phrase for imperfective (in English) is PAST CONTINUOUS. It is a past tense that continues to the present.

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Aksel Ankersen »

Cassie wrote:
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you that fool to think that you can fool the novice Arabic speakers?, well you may only further confuse the already confused goons in here, but do not dare to do it with any Arabic speaker you conman

The Na at the end of Yahiddna is called Noon Al Niswah you fool, i.e. the Noon for the feminine plural, which must be added to any VERB if we are talking about a group of women performing such verb
Plain wrong.


For your information, the Ya-Stem-Na form is called the THIRD PERSON FEMININE PLURAL IMPERFECTIVE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_grammar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The imperfective conveys the sense of an action that is incomplete but ongoing. Hence, if you include a negation of the past tense "lam" with it, you have a negation that is incomplete but ongoing. Hence, lam yahidna must mean that the 'non-menstruation' state is still incomplete and ongoing - i.e. the girl has never menstruated and is still not menstruating. Thus, you don't need a literal 'yet' to convey this meaning because the IMPERFECTIVE NEGATION conveys it.

Another phrase for imperfective (in English) is PAST CONTINUOUS. It is a past tense that continues to the present.
Nice one Cassie

For all purpose negation (past present and future) in Arabic one can write ma (مَاْ ) or in ( إِنْ ). I.e. the use of ma in Koran 4:157 to deny Jesus' crucifixion.

To negate the present tense alone one can use Laysa (ليس), used with imperfective verbs, like yahidna

ليس لوقعتها كاذبة
there is no denying (the Inevitable's) coming

-al Waqi'ah (the Inevitable), verse 2
To use lam is a linguistic choice carrying some gravity, very like the English "never".

With multiple different ways to phrase it, Muhammad still said "those who have not yet / never menstruated" ... is there any reason to think he didn't mean pre-pubescent girls?
بدرود , بدرود , بدرود

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by AhmedBahgat »

:*) :*) :*)

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KhaliL
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by KhaliL »

AhmedBahgat wrote::*) :*) :*)

Makir worshipper is laughing because he obviously failed to get what Aksel has said. Here is for you man. For your deteriorating eyesight, I have bolded and resized it.

Aksel Ankersen wrote:To use lam is a linguistic choice carrying some gravity, very like the English "never".

With multiple different ways to phrase it, Muhammad still said "those who have not yet / never menstruated" ... is there any reason to think he didn't mean pre-pubescent girls?
Sympathetically yours
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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by Pragmatist »

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote::*) :*) :*)

Makir worshipper is laughing because he obviously failed to get what Aksel has said. Here is for you man. For your deteriorating eyesight, I have bolded and resized it.

Aksel Ankersen wrote:To use lam is a linguistic choice carrying some gravity, very like the English "never".

With multiple different ways to phrase it, Muhammad still said "those who have not yet / never menstruated" ... is there any reason to think he didn't mean pre-pubescent girls?
Sympathetically yours
KhaliL
I don't think he is in too good a mood at the moment KahiL he is being spanked soundly all over the forum not just on this thread. BTW please note for your future reference he now does not accept any hadith at all so he will not be able to use them in any argument.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by charleslemartel »

And here it is from yet another source (The difference between La, Lam and Lan). Khalil has proved to be 100% right. La is used for present tense, Lam for the past tense and Lan for the future tense.

Click Here

Now Ahmed, do you now understand why you are called a liar by some people here? How credible do you think you now appear to me?
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by charleslemartel »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, if you think that I am frustrated then fine, let’s consider it that I am frustrated because the Cyber world allows deceivers like you to mislead others with ease. That is why I am here to expose the likees of you and help those others not to be deceived by you
On the contrary, I now think you are here to deceive non Muslims by lying about the verses and meanings of Arabic words. Did you really not know the usage of La, Lam and Lan, or did you lie purposefully to deceive non Muslims like me who know little Arabic? Are you going to admit your ignorance, or are you going to admit your dishonesty?

I am saddened by your crumbling image in my eyes.
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.

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Re: Age of marriage as per quran

Post by AhmedBahgat »

LOL

Let's see how the dumb goons cover up Haik blunder
charleslemartel wrote:And here it is from yet another source (The difference between La, Lam and Lan). Khalil has proved to be 100% right. La is used for present tense, Lam for the past tense and Lan for the future tense.
Idiot, Ma is the denial for past tense

La and Lam HAS TO DENY PRESENT TENSE

Go and dismiss yourstupid pinhead you arselicking fool
charleslemartel wrote:Now Ahmed, do you now understand why you are called a liar by some people here? How credible do you think you now appear to me?

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