parvez mushtaq wrote:I agree , and I am not blind or deaf , there are lots of Muslims right know who will give the example of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to justify this ayah
That means? Your prophet married a six year old girl and had SEX with the girl when she reached nine years of age. You can not find it in your Quran but this abominable practice of your prophet is attested by Quran. That is all what Quran chapter 65 verses 4 about. So, both Quran and your prophet’s Sunna condones paedophilia. Next?
parvez mushtaq wrote:This type of accusation will result in oneness of ummah and that is why I am taking all pains
A day is nearing when Muslims will be one by YOU PEOPLE AND NOT BY THEM SELF
This will teach Muslims who say we should take all sahih hadiths immaterial of quran taken into consideration
This oneness of your Muslim Ummah or even an Ummah is an illusion my boy. There never was a perfect Ummah in Islam. In case no Mullah has told you, Muhammad could not establish an Ummah in perfect sense. Soon after his death, the whole of central Arabia apostatized because Muslims who adhered to Muhammad found no fun in continuing in Islam after Muhammad’s death. It was not faith that made them glued to Islam but was material gains in the form of war booties and women. Once Muhammad left, they thought everything is over and soon deserted Islam. Your first Caliph Abu Bakr armed up against Muslim apostates and those wars are called Riddah (apostasy) wars which lasted over a year. The wars were bloody and the penurious Caliph of Islam had to smite Muslim necks in order to stabilize matters.
After that..? Do you know who killed Othman the third Caliph of Islam? It was Abu Bakr-the first Caliph’s son Muhammad who killed Othman. And he was a Muslim.
Again, do you know who killed Husain-the grandson of your prophet? He met a most brutal death by Muslims’ hands who even denied him water before beheading him after tying him up in the sun for a whole day. The killers were Muslims.
Again, Aisha-the child bride of Muhammad who along with Abu Huraira narrated most of the hadiths armed up against Ali-the fourth Caliph of Islam. The war known as Camel war brought twenty thousand Muslim deaths and not a single among the dead were slain by infidels. It was Muslims on both sides fighting each other to bring this casualty. Just think of it. Twenty thousand deaths in seventh century Arabia is equal to two million deaths in this era given the fact of world population now. And who caused it? None other than one of your mothers of believers and your fourth rightly guided caliph Ali..! You can not blame a single infidel intervention in this war and the eventual horrid casualties.
So, honey… if they failed; do you think you guys can bring up an Ummah? A perfect Ummah which only existed in illusions? Can you show me a juncture in the history of Islam where you guys stopped killing each other? Can you show me at any time, there existed a perfect Islamic system? Just once?
Oneness of Muslims..? Are you kidding me?
Islam is full of blood and it can not exist without shedding blood. You know all those warriors of Badr –the first battle your Muhammad fought were killed in Civil war?
All were killed by Muslims NOT by infidels. Let me ask why? If Islam was a perfect system, why it could not even save the grandson of its prophet? Why it could not save those holy warriors who fought the first full-scale battle for its cause?
I feel like asking again and again: Did you guys ever stop killing each other? Muhammad said his contemporary are the best Muslims. And we see the real bloodbath in which Muslims killing Muslims right after Muhammad breathing his last.
Tell me dear Muslim? Muhammad said “if a Muslim fights with a Muslim, both will go to hell” He said abusing a Muslim is fusuq and killing him is Kufr. [Sahih Bukhari. Book 3, Hadith:122]
Can you tell me where should your mother Aisha be according to Muhammad? Where can be Ali the fourth Caliph? Both are in hell or? Are they both Kafirs because they fought each other and killed TWENTY thousand Muslims. Not one two three…..
Would you please clear this up for me before being flagrant on your one and only Ummah?
parvez mushtaq wrote:This I disagree with you, once you know the essence of quran , you will start believing in GOD
Don’t worry. I know your Quran much much much better than you do. That is why I can smash Muslim arguments quite easily. And don’t worry over I am not getting into the essence of Quran. I learnt it from Salafi and Sufi perspectives. And I believed like you; there is a god. But that was in my past.
I learnt a lot and for the purpose I read a lot other than Quran too. That is why you have an apostate speaking to you. Chweech…
parvez mushtaq wrote:ONLY BOOK ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET WHICH GIVES THE PROOF OF GOD IS QURAN
Huh.. what a confident statement in shouting capital letters..??!! Boy…, I told you of the etiquettes of communicating. If you use capital letters for the entire sentence, that is denotative of shouting. What makes you shouting? Are you not sure Quran is a sufficient proof for the existence of Allah? What makes you holler?
How do you know Allah is god? Well, it is said in Quran. But what makes Quran authority to speak of god? Your answer will be Quran is the word of god.
Now, if I ask evidence for it?
You will say, it is said in Quran.
Darn… Is this the proof you are talking about? Do you know of circular reasoning?
parvez mushtaq wrote:Muslims are yet to attain this , because lots of sahih hadiths hinder quran
But , I am not totally against all hadiths , they are just historical references and to be taken into account only and only if the agree with quran
Don’t worry Parvez, this is the beginning. Doubts begin like this. First you will doubt of some hadiths, then that doubt will grow to discard all hadiths because since you have some humaneness left in you, that would be enough for you to discard all hadiths because you can not stand their stupidity. After that..? Well, you will be left with Quran only.
Well, dear Muslim, from Quran only to NO QURAN is a small step. You have started to doubt. Good I would say. Keep up and stay with us more. I can sense a potential apostate in you; that may not happen overnight, but take it from me; you can not glue with this stupid system for long. I say this because Islam does not deserve your time. You have tremendous potentials and all it takes to unleash them is to break the shackles of Islam. If you stay with us more, I am sure you will do it yourself. No other influence will be necessary in your case. I am confident.
parvez mushtaq wrote:No haik, pl again read my post, translators have added “yet” on condition that “yet” will not change the meaning
I am not dead on a term “YET”. I made it clear in many posts. I was just making the correct translation. And if this “yet” bothers you a lot, discard it. I have no problem but what difference does it make? You say “Yet” will not change the meaning. All right, go without yet. So what?
parvez mushtaq wrote:See again , whether you add “yet” or you don’t ,meaning remains the same
For example , the translation of sahih international reads without “yet”
There is no blame upon you if you divorce women you have not touched nor specified for them an obligation. But give them [a gift of] compensation - the wealthy according to his capability and the poor according to his capability - a provision according to what is acceptable, a duty upon the doers of good.
Again in the case of 3-170 , mohsin khan has used brackets
170. They rejoice in what Allâh has bestowed upon them of His Bounty, rejoicing for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve.
And PICKTHAL did not used “yet”
PICKTHAL: Jubilant (are they) because of that which Allah hath bestowed upon them of His bounty, rejoicing for the sake of those who have not joined them but are left behind: That there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Meaning to say that, they have used “yet” only if meaning doesn’t change , but is case of lamma , they have used “yet”
No big deal if you are not comfortable with yet. I am not going to use it again. But, your point..? We are discussing of a phrase in Quran and its possible translations in English. I will not use “Yet” if that would make you happy. Now can you come to the point?
parvez mushtaq wrote:But here, “yet” changes the meaning , so no one was dared to add “yet” , see this is the beauty of quran , even if they see it is wrong or correct they don’t dare to add or subtract any thing
Forget about it. I am happy without “YET”. Okay? Now what do you say? Oh… beauty of Quran…! Well, Quran is very beautiful because there are high bosomed beautiful virgins and pearly boys in it. Allah the author of Quran has graphically portrayed a stunning brothel in it. How can I say it is not beautiful?
Quran is beautiful and sexy. Sexier than Angelina Jolie’s lips. Are you happy now?
parvez mushtaq wrote:Once again, haik, let me put this way, once a man touches a female, gone, she is not a virgin, so if you add “yet” or not , that makes no difference
Likewise, one a women starts menstruating, gone, she becomes a women
So adding “yet” makes a world of difference here and that is why it was not added “yet”
Huh… once a man touches a female, everything is gone and she is no longer a virgin? Where should man touch to this miracle to happen?
Anyway, if a girl is having her periods in her childhood, I mean when she is either nine or ten year old, does that mean she became a fully matured woman? How come? Do you know what does maturity mean? I bet you do not. Maturity means acquiring both physical and psychological phases of maturity. A nine year old girl can not be a woman just because she starts to discharge at that age. It is your dirty Islamic definition. No sane person will agree to it.
Still, what is the big deal? We are discussing of a verse in Quran which says “Those females who have not menstruated”. Aren’t we?
parvez mushtaq wrote:Thanks haik, this what I wanted to talk next about , and that is why I asked you in the beginning about the reference of your tafsirs
Now, “desperate” is not the translation of YAISNA, it is despair , so loss of hope
Meaning that, women who lost their hope of menstruation
In other words, menopause
That is what all the translators have agreed upon
So this category never accommodates our case of POCS
Okay move on. But please bear with my ignorance. If what you mean by POCS is females who fail to menstruate even after passing the normal age stage, that group of females are covered in the phrase “Yaisna min al-maheedhi”. I said it in my post. Yaisna = desperate. It is not a noun as you want it to be. Anyway move on and let me see what more anomalies are there you have to discharge.
parvez mushtaq wrote:Again “yet” , if and only if you add YET , you will get this meaning other wise this is the clear case of PCOS
How? Can you elaborate a little? “Those who have not menstruated” is the translation if I remove “yet” from it. How does this denote very clear case o f PCOS? Is it your finding or are there more with you who helped you to embark on this remarkable finding?
parvez mushtaq wrote:Haik, I have already given you the verse which negates your assertion, verse 58 of surah noor
As far as , tafsirs , even that I have provided you haik
"O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,
There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed,
This I think your pride has made to ignore, haik
Boy…, play this tricks to any retarded Mulla. Where do you pull off this Tafsir from?
“Young females who have not menstruated” means what? can you enlighten us again?
Do not play tricks; This is FFI and nobody will be buying your fake commodities here. See what the late Mufti Ibn Utaymeen says on the Ayat 65:4:
If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise[Quran. Surah al-Talaaq 65:4]
Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, Majmoo’at As’ilah tahumm al-Usrah al-Muslimah, p. 61-63.
And if you want a classic, more authentic Mufassir, here is Ibn Kathir:
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. 2:228). The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. [Ibn Kathir on Quran 65:4]Source
You may defend your cult but be honest while presenting sources. Lying between your teeth is not a good habit for you to get accustomed to at this young age.
parvez mushtaq wrote:I am perfectly on target , haik, I am well within the tafsir
You are nowhere near target let alone near perfect; don’t forget I challenged you to bring a single verse, a single piece from any authentic Tafsir which refutes my contention Quran sanctions paedophilia = marrying and having sex with prepubescent girls. Can you meet my challenge?
If not, better stay mute and do not come up with your made up excuses. I am with your Quran and authentic sources. And unlike you, I never make things up for any agenda.
But you do. That is why you are shamelessly misquoting Tafsirs and claiming you are with them. If you want to be with Quran and its authentic Tafsirs, you must be with those reeking Mullas of Saudi Arabia who recently issued a Fatwa based on Quran “Marrying prepubescent girls is sanctioned in Islam”
However stinky, those retards are honest to admit the fact in Quran.
Regards and if you come up, be honest enough. Do not be delusional. Facts are not going to fade just because you manage to seduce them.