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Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:42 am
by parvez mushtaq
haik in his article

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/01/ ... edophilia/

as claimed that quran gives permission for child marriage

my refutation to haik are

- you(haik) have started your article about the iddah of women who were not touched , so there is no iddah if they had no sex , so main aim of prescribing iddah is/was pregnancy

- you(haik) have combined , the two distinct categories of menstruation into one.
1. WOMEN on menopause (Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed…..)
2. WOMEN who do not menstruate (…..and for those who have no courses…)

These two categories you have combined and made it as one with a translation of …. “Yaisna min al-maheedhi” = “those women who are desperate of menses”= is an indication to women….

- and your argument about nisa was also the “FEMALE CHILDREN” is also weak ,because , the context you have mention clearly was talking about “KILLING YOUR SONS” and in this context it is very clear that NISA are being referred to female children as well as women (meaning don’t change !)

- you have quoted few tafsirs OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE , it was their interpretation , but quran is very clear , iddah mention over there are of this categories

1. WOMEN on menopause
2. WOMEN on PCOS, vaginal agenesis, or premature menopause
3. and of course , pregnancy

Even tafsirs , given by you , differentiate this categories (their views may be different)
now , if for argument sake, if we agree your claim , then plz tell me why there should not be a iddah for women who was not touched by men, because , even those women who are yet to menstruate will not going to have pregnancy
They both should be in the same category as per quran (there should be no iddah in both the cases)

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:02 pm
by ixolite
1. WOMEN on menopause
2. WOMEN on PCOS, vaginal agenesis, or premature menopause
3. and of course , pregnancy

Premature menopause would count as menopause. PCOS would fall under the normal iddah aka 3 periods. Vaginal agenesis is a completely different matter, as it malformation of the (inner) genitals, which would at Mo's time made the woman infertile and therefore not worthy of marriage in the first place.

Q 65:4 clearly is about the 3 stages of a female life without periods, which are: pre-puberty, pregnancy and menopause. Diseases are not mentioned at all in this verse.

Tafsir:

Ibn Kathir wrote:The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses


Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;


[وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ]


(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;


[إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ]


(if you have doubt...) There are two opinions: First, is the saying of a group of the Salaf, like Mujahid, Az-Zuhri and Ibn Zayd. That is, if they see blood and there is doubt if it was menstrual blood or not. The second, is that if you do not know the ruling in this case, then know that their `Iddah is three months. This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir. And this is the more obvious meaning. Supporting this view is what is reported from Ubay bin Ka`b that he said, "O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,


[وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ]


(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses. And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden.) Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a simpler narration than this one from Ubay bin Ka`b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the `Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, `There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed,


[وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ]


(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses.)''

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54223


Here's a hadith which mentions what is ment:

Sahih Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63;

Narrated Sahl bin Sad; While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, "Marry her to me O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet asked (him), "Have you got anything?" He said, "I have got nothing." The Prophet said, "Not even an iron ring?" He Sad, "Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half." The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:55 pm
by rudrasharman
parvez mushtaq wrote:my refutation to haik are

- you(haik) have started your article about the iddah of women who were not touched , so there is no iddah if they had no sex , so main aim of prescribing iddah is/was pregnancy


Huh? Do you even read what you write?

The "aim" of iddah is irrelevant. The fact is that iddah is solely determined by whether intercourse has occurred (marriage has been consummated).

Regardless of whether pregnancy is even possible or not!

As it would not be after menopause or before puberty, two cases explicitly covered here.

Sheesh.

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:33 pm
by Ace
parvez mushtaq wrote:my refutation to haik are

- you(haik) have started your article about the iddah of women who were not touched , so there is no iddah if they had no sex , so main aim of prescribing iddah is/was pregnancy



What ?! if they had no sex ? where did you get that. Tafsir says Iddah is 3 months even if they have not reached the age of menstruation, it says nothing about them having sex or not.


- and your argument about nisa was also the “FEMALE CHILDREN” is also weak ,because , the context you have mention clearly was talking about “KILLING YOUR SONS” and in this context it is very clear that NISA are being referred to female children as well as women (meaning don’t change !)


exactly and in that verse nisa is used for female children and women.

- you have quoted few tafsirs OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE , it was their interpretation , but quran is very clear , iddah mention over there are of this categories

1. WOMEN on menopause
2. WOMEN on PCOS, vaginal agenesis, or premature menopause
3. and of course , pregnancy


Let me quote you the tafsirs ;

Ibn Kathir ;

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54196



Tafsir al-Jalalayan (another crediable tafsir)

And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver. And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.


http://www.altafsir.com and search for surah 65 verse 4


Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation) because of old age, (if ye doubt) about their waiting period, (their period (of waiting) shall be three months) upon which another man asked: “O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months. Another man asked: “what is the waiting period for those women who are pregnant?” (And for those with child) i.e. those who are pregnant, (their period) their waiting period (shall be till they bring forth their burden) their child. (And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah) and whoever fears Allah regarding what he commands him, (He maketh his course easy for him) He makes his matter easy; and it is also said this means: He will help him to worship Him well.



Tafsir Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi

(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) [65:4]. Said Muqatil: “When the verse (Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart…), Kallad ibn al-Nu‘man ibn Qays al-Ansari said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, what is the waiting period of the woman who does not menstruate and the woman who has not menstruated yet? And what is the waiting period of the pregnant woman?’ And so Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse”. Abu Ishaq al-Muqri’ informed us> Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Hamdun> Makki ibn ‘Abdan> Abu’l-Azhar> Asbat ibn Muhammad> Mutarrif> Abu ‘Uthman ‘Amr ibn Salim who said: “When the waiting period for divorced and widowed women was mentioned in Surah al-Baqarah, Ubayy ibn Ka‘b said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some women of Medina are saying: there are other women who have not been mentioned!’ He asked him: ‘And who are they?’ He said: ‘Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet], those who are too old [whose menstruation has stopped] and those who are pregnant’. And so this verse (And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) was revealed”.




Up until now ALL the tafsirs agree on this point,


Now the hadiths ;

Book 29, Number 29.33.108:

108 Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, visited Umm Salama while she was in mourning for Abu Salama and she had put aloes on her eyes. He said, "What is this, Umm Salama?" She said, "It is only aloes, Messenger of Allah." He said, "Put it on at night and wipe it off in the daytime."
Malik said, "The mourning of a young girl who has not yet had a menstrual period takes the same form as the mourning of one who has had a period. She avoids what a mature woman avoids if her husband dies."

Malik said, "A slave-girl mourns her husband when he dies for two months and five nights like her idda.''

Malik said, "An umm walad does not have to mourn when her master dies, and a slave-girl does not have to mourn when her master dies. Mourning is for those with husbands."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamental ... 9.29.6.19a



]Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63:

Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, "Marry her to me O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet asked (him), "Have you got anything?" He said, "I have got nothing." The Prophet said, "Not even an iron ring?" He Sad, "Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half." The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamental ... 2.sbt.html







Now U tell us,...what is the age of marriage based on Quran ?




And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).[/quote]


Even tafsirs , given by you , differentiate this categories (their views may be different)
now , if for argument sake, if we agree your claim , then plz tell me why there should not be a iddah for women who was not touched by men, because , even those women who are yet to menstruate will not going to have pregnancy
They both should be in the same category as per quran (there should be no iddah in both the cases)[/quote]

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:28 am
by Ace
Since you know arabic, may I ask you...just for shits and giggles to translate Ibn Taymiyya's opinion ;

وفي الفصول روى عن أحمد في رجل خاف ان تنشق مثانته من الشبق أو تنشق انثياه لحبس الماء في زمن رمضان يستخرج الماء ولم يذكر بأي شيء يستخرجه قال وعندي أنه يستخرجه بما لا يفسد صوم غيره كاستمنائه بيده أو ببدن زوجته أو أمته غير الصائمة فإن كان له أمه طفلة أو صغيرة استمنى بيدها وكذلك الكافرة ويجوز وطئها فيما دون الفرج فإن أراد الوطء في الفرج مع إمكان إخراج الماء بغيره فعندي أنه لا يجوز لأن الضرورة إذا رفعت حرام ما وراءها كالشبع مع الميتة بل ههنا آكد لأن باب الفروج آكد في الحظر من الأكل
قلت وظاهر كلام أحمد جواز الوطء لأنه أباح له الفطر والإطعام فلو اتفق مثل هذا في حال الحيض لم يجز له الوطء قولا واحدا فلو اتفق ذلك لمحرم أخرج ماءه ولم يجز له الوطء فصل
فإن كان شبق الصائم مستداما جميع الزمان سقط القضاء وعدل إلى الفدية كالشيخ والشيخة وإن كان يعتريه في زمن الصيف أو الشتاء قضي في الزمن الآخر ولا فدية هنا لأنه عذر غير مستدام فهو كالمريض ذكر ذلك في الفصول فائدة حكم القيام إلى الجنازة
وقوله في المقنع وإن جاءت وهو جالس لم يقم لها يعنى الجنازة لم أر هذا في الكلام أحمد رضي الله عنه وقد قال وإن قام لم أعبه وإن قعد فلا بأس وقال الميموني في مسائله سمعته يقول إذا تبع الجنازة فلا يجلس حتى توضع كذا قال أبو هريرة وأبو سعيد وإذا رآها قام قال كان هذا أكثر في الخبر من عشرة من أصحاب رسول الله يروونه
ثم قال الميموني تسمية من يروي عن النبي أنه كان إذا رأى جنازة قام لها عثمان بن عفان سعيد بن زيد عامر بن ربيعة قيس بن سعد سهل بن حنيف

كتاب بدائع الفوائد، الجزء 4، صفحة 906

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taim ... =64&id=889

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:30 am
by parvez mushtaq
dear ixolite,Ace

you people are going veryyyyyyy fast

i will never deny any of the hadiths or tafsirs you have quoted
it is/was thier
no one can deny
i will be a stupid to deny those things
so tafsirs are their and
they are debateable

my question was

which part of that ayah do those tafsirs are referring

are they referring to
065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, .........

or they refering to

065.004
YUSUFALI:......... for those who have no courses .......

we will go step by step pl

with regards

Mushtaq

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:07 am
by KhaliL
parvez mushtaq wrote:
my question was

which part of that ayah do those tafsirs are referring

are they referring to
065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, .........

or they refering to

065.004
YUSUFALI:......... for those who have no courses .......
Mushtaq


Hi Parvez_Mushtaq,

What about reading the article once again since you are trying to discuss of it here? The phrase for which all Tafsirs had been brought in that article is the second one "Wallaee Lam yahidhna" = "For those who have not menstruated".

The other things you brought are refuted by our members. I would rather urge you to read the article once again. A good part of the article was dedicated to define the women who are mentioned in the phrase "Those who have not menstruated yet". They are underaged girls according to all Mufassirs. (I brought almost a dozen of authentic Quran intepreters)

Anything else?

KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:21 pm
by parvez mushtaq
Hi Parvez_Mushtaq,

What about reading the article once again since you are trying to discuss of it here? The phrase for which all Tafsirs had been brought in that article is the second one "Wallaee Lam yahidhna" = "For those who have not menstruated".

The other things you brought are refuted by our members. I would rather urge you to read the article once again. A good part of the article was dedicated to define the women who are mentioned in the phrase "Those who have not menstruated yet". They are underaged girls according to all Mufassirs. (I brought almost a dozen of authentic Quran intepreters)

Anything else?


thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:34 pm
by KhaliL
parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:56 pm
by parvez mushtaq
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL


haik pl don't waste time
pl tell me in "yes" or "no"
if there is "yet" then tell me where

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:21 pm
by KhaliL
parvez mushtaq wrote:
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL


haik pl don't waste time
pl tell me in "yes" or "no"
if there is "yet" then tell me where


Sad individual. Do you think this is smart enough?
Do you know Arabic? I bet you do not. Do you have your comprehension intact? NOT.
How would you translate a phrase if that denotes "Girls who have not reached the age of menstruation?"

Now listen you kid.

"Lam" = Denotative of negation. "NOT"
"Yahidh" = Verbal form of "Haidh" or "Maheedh" = "Menstruate"
"Na" = Resonance which means either "Still or Yet".

Why do you skip your Quran classes?

KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:11 am
by AhmedBahgat
Time to expose a clear cut deceiver who is an inmate in the CCCLD:

parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


KhaliL FarieL wrote:The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL


parvez mushtaq wrote:haik pl don't waste time
pl tell me in "yes" or "no"
if there is "yet" then tell me where


KhaliL FarieL wrote:[color=#400000]Sad individual. Do you think this is smart enough?


Hahahaha, here is the conman in action, when he is cornered, he starts spinning

Yeh it was bloody smart enough to expose a conman like you, show us how it was the contrary

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Do you know Arabic?


But it is been proven that you are indeed ignorant of the basics of Arabic language, your crap below will be enough to again expose you

KhaliL FarieL wrote: I bet you do not.


The safest bet should be that are the one who do not, well, you will prove me right (again) below

KhaliL FarieL wrote: Do you have your comprehension intact? NOT.


Well, let me tact your comprehension then

KhaliL FarieL wrote:How would you translate a phrase if that denotes "Girls who have not reached the age of menstruation?"


Lam Yaddnna ABADA

Lol, do you think that was smart enough?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now listen you kid.


Well, how a kid listens to a fool?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Lam" = Denotative of negation. "NOT"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Yahidh" = Verbal form of "Haidh" or "Maheedh" = "Menstruate"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Na" = Resonance which means either "Still or Yet".


HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you that fool to think that you can fool the novice Arabic speakers?, well you may only further confuse the already confused goons in here, but do not dare to do it with any Arabic speaker you conman

The Na at the end of Yahiddna is called Noon Al Niswah you fool, i.e. the Noon for the feminine plural, which must be added to any VERB if we are talking about a group of women performing such verb


Why do not you go and burry your PinConHead somewhere?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Why do you skip your Quran classes?


And did you skip your Arabic classes?

Do you really know Arabic or just the letters and numbers?

Please follow my advice to find an isolated place so you can burry your PinConHead whitout feeling any shame that some may be watching you, you may watch the slam in there:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=161&p=4223#p4223

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:46 am
by CoolView
parvez mushtaq wrote:dear ixolite,Ace

you people are going veryyyyyyy fast

i will never deny any of the hadiths or tafsirs you have quoted
it is/was thier
no one can deny
i will be a stupid to deny those things
so tafsirs are their and
they are debateable

my question was

which part of that ayah do those tafsirs are referring

are they referring to
065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, .........

or they refering to

065.004
YUSUFALI:......... for those who have no courses .......

we will go step by step pl

with regards

Mushtaq


Quite cool explanations.

The title of the post is Age of marriage as per quran. How can that be determined from a surah on divorce?
I agree with your views.

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:00 am
by CoolView
AhmedBahgat wrote:Time to expose a clear cut deceiver who is an inmate in the CCCLD:

parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


KhaliL FarieL wrote:The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL


parvez mushtaq wrote:haik pl don't waste time
pl tell me in "yes" or "no"
if there is "yet" then tell me where


KhaliL FarieL wrote:[color=#400000]Sad individual. Do you think this is smart enough?


Hahahaha, here is the conman in action, when he is cornered, he starts spinning

Yeh it was bloody smart enough to expose a conman like you, show us how it was the contrary

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Do you know Arabic?


But it is been proven that you are indeed ignorant of the basics of Arabic language, your crap below will be enough to again expose you

KhaliL FarieL wrote: I bet you do not.


The safest bet should be that are the one who do not, well, you will prove me right (again) below

KhaliL FarieL wrote: Do you have your comprehension intact? NOT.


Well, let me tact your comprehension then

KhaliL FarieL wrote:How would you translate a phrase if that denotes "Girls who have not reached the age of menstruation?"


Lam Yaddnna

Lol, do you think that was smart enough?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now listen you kid.


Well, how a kid listens to a fool?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Lam" = Denotative of negation. "NOT"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Yahidh" = Verbal form of "Haidh" or "Maheedh" = "Menstruate"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Na" = Resonance which means either "Still or Yet".


HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you that fool to think that you can fool the novice Arabic speakers?, well you may only further confuse the already confused goons in here, but do not dare to do it with any Arabic speaker you conman

The Na at the end of Yahiddna is called Noon Al Niswah you fool, i.e. the Noon for the feminine plural, which must be added to any VERB if we are talking about a group of women performing such verb


Why do not you go and burry your PinConHead somewhere?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Why do you skip your Quran classes?


And did you skip your Arabic classes?

Do you really know Arabic or just the letters and numbers?

Please follow my advice to find an isolated place so you can burry your PinConHead whitout feeling any shame that some may be watching you, you may watch the slam in there:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=161&p=4223#p4223


Cool. Enjoyd reading your comments. It s nice to see an Arabic expert who can comment with authority.

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:50 am
by KhaliL
________________

Ahmed Bahgat,

No comment on your ad hominem rants which are reflective of your frustration. I forgot to warn you beforehand abrogating my life dismissal to engage with me will pay you dearly Mr. Bahgat, You have not learnt from your past mistakes. Now let me move into business.

The phrase in trial is “Lam Yahidna”

As in the post above to that of yours, I dislodged the phrase into three parts. It was to make sense when a phrase of a Semitic language translates into an entirely different lingo.

Now, I can’t stop calling you a kid; it is not a derogatory term but just consider I am too much fond of you.

LAM = Negation in the past.
Yahidh = Present tense from the root Haidh
Na = Suffix

Can you translate this word to word to English without adding ‘Yet’ in it and make sense of it? Do you want to see how it goes:

“Not in the past to menstruate”

Does it make sense to you? Perhaps; since you are not a native speaker of English and your skills in this beautiful language is very poor. But ask any native speaker whether the above is grammatically correct sentence or not. It is NOT until you insert the term “YET” and retranslate it in an appropriate mode. I would do it for you and consider this free.

“Not menstruated yet”

See, it makes perfect sense;

Now, let me challenge you to translate the Arabic phrase “Lam Yahidhna” literally into English without adding “YET”. Let me see how far you can move on.

Waiting
KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:51 am
by Aksel Ankersen
Hello parvez musthaq

Lam Yahidna ( لم يحضن ) = "not menstruated"

There is no specific particle for "yet" in the phrase, but the word Lam ( لم ) specifically negates the past.

A more accurate translation might be "never menstruated"

HUH...Divorce Without Marriage?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:57 am
by KhaliL
CoolView wrote:Quite cool explanations.

The title of the post is Age of marriage as per quran. How can that be determined from a surah on divorce?
I agree with your views.


CoolView,

Do you always divorce without marrying?

Is it not time for you to stop trolling?

Anyway, stay with us until....

KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:02 am
by KhaliL
Aksel Ankersen wrote:Hello parvez musthaq

Lam Yahidna ( لم يحضن ) = "not menstruated"

There is no specific particle for "yet" in the phrase, but the word Lam ( لم ) specifically negates the past.

A more accurate translation might be "never menstruated"



There is still a problem because "Yahidh" is in present tense while "Lam" is negation in past tense. The prefix "YA" to the root word "Haidh" and the suffix "NA" makes the real mess here for translators and Muslims especially. The word is used in third person while being feminine plural. I am focusing on the suffix "NA" for the very reason. Literally the prefix "NA" does not stand for "YET" But without adding yet in the translation, it would be tricky to bring out a coherent sentence in English from the phrase. Or let our Ahmed Bahgat try and come up.

KhaliL

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:08 am
by parvez mushtaq
AhmedBahgat wrote:Time to expose a clear cut deceiver who is an inmate in the CCCLD:

parvez mushtaq wrote:
thanks haik
you have solved nearly 30% of the problem

rso as per you all tafsirs are regarding "for those who HAVE NOT MENSTRUATED"

BUT ONE MORE THING

where is "YET" haik

with regards

Mushtaq


KhaliL FarieL wrote:The phrase "Wallaee Lam yahidna" as interpreted by Islam's authentic Mufassirs generates the meaning "Those who have not menstruated yet". BTW, don't you have anything worthwhile to add than coming up with these silly bits?

Regards
KhaliL


parvez mushtaq wrote:haik pl don't waste time
pl tell me in "yes" or "no"
if there is "yet" then tell me where


KhaliL FarieL wrote:[color=#400000]Sad individual. Do you think this is smart enough?


Hahahaha, here is the conman in action, when he is cornered, he starts spinning

Yeh it was bloody smart enough to expose a conman like you, show us how it was the contrary

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Do you know Arabic?


But it is been proven that you are indeed ignorant of the basics of Arabic language, your crap below will be enough to again expose you

KhaliL FarieL wrote: I bet you do not.


The safest bet should be that are the one who do not, well, you will prove me right (again) below

KhaliL FarieL wrote: Do you have your comprehension intact? NOT.


Well, let me tact your comprehension then

KhaliL FarieL wrote:How would you translate a phrase if that denotes "Girls who have not reached the age of menstruation?"


Lam Yaddnna ABADA

Lol, do you think that was smart enough?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Now listen you kid.


Well, how a kid listens to a fool?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Lam" = Denotative of negation. "NOT"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Yahidh" = Verbal form of "Haidh" or "Maheedh" = "Menstruate"


Good boy

KhaliL FarieL wrote:"Na" = Resonance which means either "Still or Yet".


HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you that fool to think that you can fool the novice Arabic speakers?, well you may only further confuse the already confused goons in here, but do not dare to do it with any Arabic speaker you conman

The Na at the end of Yahiddna is called Noon Al Niswah you fool, i.e. the Noon for the feminine plural, which must be added to any VERB if we are talking about a group of women performing such verb


Why do not you go and burry your PinConHead somewhere?

KhaliL FarieL wrote:Why do you skip your Quran classes?


And did you skip your Arabic classes?

Do you really know Arabic or just the letters and numbers?

Please follow my advice to find an isolated place so you can burry your PinConHead whitout feeling any shame that some may be watching you, you may watch the slam in there:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=161&p=4223#p4223


Alhamdulliah Ahmed

you are class
excellent

wowo

subhanallah

Re: Age of marriage as per quran

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:10 am
by Pragmatist
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
Aksel Ankersen wrote:Hello parvez musthaq

Lam Yahidna ( لم يحضن ) = "not menstruated"

There is no specific particle for "yet" in the phrase, but the word Lam ( لم ) specifically negates the past.

A more accurate translation might be "never menstruated"



There is still a problem because "Yahidh" is in present tense while "Lam" is negation in past tense. The prefix "YA" to the root word "Haidh" and the suffix "NA" makes the real mess here for translators and Muslims especially. The word is used in third person while being feminine plural. I am focusing on the suffix "NA" for the very reason. Literally the prefix "NA" does not stand for "YET" But without adding yet in the translation, it would be tricky to bring out a coherent sentence in English from the phrase. Or let our Ahmed Bahgat try and come up.

KhaliL


Its so funny that Mohammedans always ask us for context and then talk about hidden meanings and analogies and ambiguities but when someone like you skilled in both Arabic and as a translator try to help them they just don't get it. Everyone knows that translation is not just changing things word for word between languages it is getting the meaning across correctly and that is what you are doing. Just because this does not fit with the sly deception being put forward by Ahmed is no reason for it not to be correct. I am really looking forward to reading Ahmeds translation of the koran his English is so pathetic it will be a load of laughs.