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Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:49 am
by paarsurrey
France Invaded

by Muhammad bin Lyin


Hi friend

Aren't you a hate monger?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:22 am
by Marie
paarsurrey wrote:
France Invaded

by Muhammad bin Lyin


Hi friend

Aren't you a hate monger?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Why don't you ask your prophet that question?

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:39 am
by iffo
Muhammad bin Lyin
So you know all about churches because you took a friend to one church on a regular basis?? Iffo, are you a retard or something?? I knew you were iffo the clown, but i didn't know you were a retarded clown.



Personal insults will not help you. You think I am retard, I think you are stupid nervous wreck, so we are even here.
Muhammad bin Lyin
Iffo
You think we are muslim because of punishment. Otherwise everybody will leave Islam right?

Far more people than you realize.


Its just your wishful thinking, show how little you know about muslims. 99% of muslims will not leave Islam even if you offer them the whole world.

Marie
You must be thinking about Europe. I live in the countryside of NY and we have at least two mega Churches ( one protestant and one Catholic ) Plus the smaller Churches. NYC alone has hundreds of Churches.

Now answer my question did your friend attend a Church with liturgical services or do they sing Hallelujah praise the lord.


I was talking about US, and yes I been to many churches not only one. Don't remember what songs, they are all stupid and sound the same.
I actually don't like to waste time talking about stuff which is so obvious, there is no need talking about decline of chruch attendance.


Muhammad bin Lyin
What are the consequences for leaving Islam? Come on iffo,
lets see if you can give an honest answer for once in your life.


You will not be at peace with yourself. You will regret, confused, question yourself again and again, end up having rest of your life miserable.


Muhammad bin Lyin
I thought that if someone says that Islam seeks to dominate the world you would be called an Islamophobe? Do you think that someone who says that is an Islamophobe?


This is Islamophobia, it fits Islamophobe like yourself perfect
Islamophobia is a neologism that refers to prejudice or discrimination against Islam or Muslims. The British Runnymede Trust defined Islamophobia as the "dread or hatred of Islam and therefore, to the fear and dislike of all Muslims," stating that it also refers to the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation. It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.


Hate people who are hurting you not just everybody. We mind our business why can't you. Don't be someone like who is "Born to hate". If Islam is spreading , then don't be jealous, ask yourself why people are attracted to it. Don't hate us we are not putting gun to anyone head to join Islam in west. If any muslim cause problem there, deport them. They should respect the law of the land.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:04 am
by HollowScar
Its just your wishful thinking, show how little you know about muslims. 99% of muslims will not leave Islam even if you offer them the whole world.


Let's be logical here. Many muslim countries are either third world, corrupted, or mixed. On top of that, leaving Islam is punishable by death. Also, the Qur'an has not many science, but muslims can go to Islamic websites, look at some pretty pictures, with tons of explanations of one simple verse, and believe in it, without researching the science themselves.

I was talking about US, and yes I been to many churches not only one. Don't remember what songs, they are all stupid and sound the same.
I actually don't like to waste time talking about stuff which is so obvious, there is no need talking about decline of chruch attendance.


This does not have to do with anything. Yes, Islam is much more tamed religion, but Christianity also has it's perks. Sure there are songs and communions, but they are there to gather people in union, to praise the lord, and spread the message. Did you know that the Bible is the best selling book of the world? Yeah, no one forces them as much, but they choose to come whenever they are comfortable.

You will not be at peace with yourself. You will regret, confused, question yourself again and again, end up having rest of your life miserable.


As a muslim I was miserable, and it had nothing to do with Islam. However I prayed, and I was devoted. Nothing happened. I tried, and was steadfast. My problem was that I chose to question and inquire with an open mind, and I left. Now, my friend drinks beer one night, and comes to Jummah another day. He said he blew $40,000 one summer, and regretted it. He is still very liberal, but it is his ignorance that keeps him believing in Islam. That's all. Now, if he still ends up in Heaven, because he was born a muslim, and I end up in hell, because I questioned, then that is destiny.

This is Islamophobia, it fits Islamophobe like yourself perfect


How about former muslims? Are they Islamophobes too?

Hate people who are hurting you not just everybody. We mind our business why can't you. Don't be someone like who is "Born to hate". If Islam is spreading , then don't be jealous, ask yourself why people are attracted to it. Don't hate us we are not putting gun to anyone head to join Islam in west. If any muslim cause problem there, deport them. They should respect the law of the land.


Islam is a meaningful religion if you live in it, as a liberal. I know that the rich and poor stand together in prayer, and everyone greets everyone with cheerfulness. I know that Islam makes more sense, and is good for a person's psychology, if they just follow the five pillars. However, times are changing. We are seeing unrest as times go by. Shias and Sunnis are fighting, and women are treated badly in around the world.

Muslims don't always mind their business. There is terrorism now, which has degraded muslims. You think I enjoyed it when I heard about 9/11? Of course not. It happens. Even in the west, when we are treated like guests, some families go ahead and do honor killings. Do you think it is fair to beg for the sharia law to be a part of the west? My friend told me that they were trying hard, and if it happened, he would tell on me, so they could kill me.

Also, Islam is the fastest growing, but look at the population of muslims in some countries which are overpopulated. Look at the fact that, leaving means death. Look at the fact that there are many muslims who aren't true to themselves, and may not even be considered a muslim by Allah. Look at the fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:55 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
paarsurrey wrote:
France Invaded

by Muhammad bin Lyin


Hi friend

Aren't you a hate monger?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


No. Silly things should be laughed at.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:55 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
Marie wrote:
paarsurrey wrote:
France Invaded

by Muhammad bin Lyin


Hi friend

Aren't you a hate monger?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


Why don't you ask your prophet that question?


Yeah, he sure talked really bad about the Jews.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:09 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
iffo wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin
So you know all about churches because you took a friend to one church on a regular basis?? Iffo, are you a retard or something?? I knew you were iffo the clown, but i didn't know you were a retarded clown.



Personal insults will not help you. You think I am retard, I think you are stupid nervous wreck, so we are even here.
Muhammad bin Lyin
Iffo
You think we are muslim because of punishment. Otherwise everybody will leave Islam right?

Far more people than you realize.


Its just your wishful thinking, show how little you know about muslims. 99% of muslims will not leave Islam even if you offer them the whole world.


And where did you get this figure from, retard?? Do you think people are going to tell you? Are you really this stupid?

iffo wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:What are the consequences for leaving Islam? Come on iffo,
lets see if you can give an honest answer for once in your life.


You will not be at peace with yourself. You will regret, confused, question yourself again and again, end up having rest of your life miserable.


And you will have to live with the fact that you can't even give someone an honest answer. How does that make you feel? Doesn't it bother you at all? Look at how evasive and dishonest you are being. Look at yourself in the mirror. Is it good to be evasive and dishonest for Allah? I guess you think it must be.

iffo wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:I thought that if someone says that Islam seeks to dominate the world you would be called an Islamophobe? Do you think that someone who says that is an Islamophobe?


This is Islamophobia, it fits Islamophobe like yourself perfect


So on the one hand, you boast about Islam dominating, but on the other hand, if someone says Muslims and Islam seeks to dominate, they are an islamophobe. Look at what a rotten liar you are. Typical Muslim. Don't you have any sense of integrity or honor?


iffo wrote:
Hate people who are hurting you not just everybody. We mind our business why can't you.


You don't mind your own business you seek to change the countries you infect to meet your needs.

iffo wrote:Don't be someone like who is "Born to hate".

And you call others haters for hating mosques but you cheer and pray for churches to go down. So who's the hater??

iffo wrote: If Islam is spreading , then don't be jealous, ask yourself why people are attracted to it. Don't hate us we are not putting gun to anyone head to join Islam in west. If any muslim cause problem there, deport them. They should respect the law of the land.


Anything new to a culture is going to spread fast at the beginning because people are curious and then it slows down. People who convert often leave Islam within 2 years. The same thing would happen in Muslim countries where some people would convert to Christianity like what's happening in Africa, but Muslims cheat. They demand that you let them preach their religion in your country and actively seek converts, but a Christian can't do that in a Muslim country. So once again, Muslims are dishonest cheaters. The biggest liars and cheaters on the planet and people are slowly waking up to this fact.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:00 pm
by Marie
iffo
I was talking about US, and yes I been to many churches not only one. Don't remember what songs, they are all stupid and sound the same.
I actually don't like to waste time talking about stuff which is so obvious, there is no need talking about decline of chruch attendance.


Me:iffo does your friend attend a Church that has a liturgical service or do they sing praise the lord Hallelujah?

iffo: I don't know what you are talking about. I've never been inside a church and I am just showing off here.

Me: You are just showing of then? Then why don't you use that putty inside your head that is suppose to be a brain and read a book. Once you start reading and learnthe brain cells in your head will start working.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:51 pm
by iffo
Marie
Me:iffo does your friend attend a Church that has a liturgical service or do they sing praise the lord Hallelujah?

iffo: I don't know what you are talking about. I've never been inside a church and I am just showing off here.

Me: You are just showing of then? Then why don't you use that putty inside your head that is suppose to be a brain and read a book. Once you start reading and learnthe brain cells in your head will start working


LOLLLLLLLLL you are a dumb missionary who will be jobless soon in your own country. :D

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:31 pm
by paarsurrey
HollowScar wrote:Islam is a meaningful religion if you live in it, as a liberal. I know that the rich and poor stand together in prayer, and everyone greets everyone with cheerfulness. I know that Islam makes more sense, and is good for a person's psychology, if they just follow the five pillars.


Hi friend HollowScar

I appreciate your above words.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:14 am
by paarsurrey
HollowScar wrote:Also, Islam is the fastest growing, but look at the population of Muslims in some countries which are overpopulated. Look at the fact that, leaving means death. Look at the fact that there are many Muslims who aren't true to themselves, and may not even be considered a Muslim by Allah. Look at the fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world.


Hi friend HollowScar

I just want to correct you on one thing; "Christianity" is a misnomer started by Paul and the Church, it has nothing to do with Jesus or Mary or their beliefs and teachings. It is conglomerate of many denominations/faiths/religions 32000+ of them clubbed together with hardly anything in common. Each one of them considers themselves as the only true Christians and the others as heretics. So the population they quote is to be divided by at least 32000 and the quotient should be compared to the Muslims. The Catholics don’t consider Protestants as Christians and the vice versa. If you need I can provide you the references or just visit Catholics forums and see what they believe about Protestants; you may also visit the Protestant forums and see for yourself what they think about the Catholics.

A majority of the Catholics and Protestants have become Atheists Agnostics; as they don’t believe that Jesus was a God; human conscience rejects divinity of Jesust. If you count the Church going Christians; you will find still much less active members of these religions.

The Catholics Protestants, if they sincerely believe in Jesus; they should reform and reject all worthless concepts of Paul, clever working of his cunning brain, carved out of thin air or the same are like a spider’s web; only then the Catholics Protestants can bring back or salvage their members who have silently got converted to Atheism Agnosticism.

As it is not secret; the Atheists Agnostics though they should have been a reasonable people; yet being un-natural concepts they are nothing more than a meme; their permanent abode is in doubt and they have no recourse except in derision and ridiculing others. I still hope they may reform, if they start respecting other human beings. I respect their faith or un-faith.

The Catholics Protestants should find the true teachings of Jesus, Moses and other Messengers Prophets of the Creator – God Allah YHWH and also righteous women like Mary and Moses’ mother and should follow their beliefs and their acts and deeds. Therein lies their salvation; not in the obsolete concept of Jesus dieing on the Cross ; as Jesus did not die on the Cross, so the Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken and is futile as per his own words. Jesus made good his escape to India and died there peacefully and naturally at the age of about 120 years.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:12 am
by Marie
iffo wrote:
Marie
Me:iffo does your friend attend a Church that has a liturgical service or do they sing praise the lord Hallelujah?

iffo: I don't know what you are talking about. I've never been inside a church and I am just showing off here.

Me: You are just showing of then? Then why don't you use that putty inside your head that is suppose to be a brain and read a book. Once you start reading and learnthe brain cells in your head will start working


LOLLLLLLLLL you are a dumb missionary who will be jobless soon in your own country. :D


No I will still have a job unlike you who will be at home all day long scratching yourself and collecting welfare. Oh wait a minute, sitting at home all day long, scratching yourself, and collecting welfare is considered holy in Islam.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:15 am
by Marie
Hollowscar whatever paarsurrey says about Christianity just ignore him. paarsurrey is the resident Ahmadi Muslim sent here to proselytize to nonmuslims.

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:38 am
by HollowScar
Hey Mr. paarsurrey,

HollowScar wrote:Islam is a meaningful religion if you live in it, as a liberal. I know that the rich and poor stand together in prayer, and everyone greets everyone with cheerfulness. I know that Islam makes more sense, and is good for a person's psychology, if they just follow the five pillars.


paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend HollowScar

I appreciate your above words.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion, but in it's core lies the problems. This is another issue, but other than this, Islam is truly a way of life, and is more like a culture to many.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding Christianity, I think you can find better answers from a Christian. The way they enforce their religion is their choice. Humankind exists and causes difference from each other. As for the origination of Christianity, different people witnessed it, and wrote their accounts. They all had different perspectives, so there are some contradictions, but the general idea is the same. Now, there were some verses that were taken out, but the essence is still there.

Even, Islam agrees that the crucifixion happened, but it was someone else. Was Allah aware that by putting someone else in that position who resembled Jesus, he would be causing the creation of the worlds largest religion?

Also, Christians are all the same in their basic principles. They have the ten commandments, which they should follow with their hearts, and they will be ok. Now the Catholics say that God can be reached through the priests, while Protestants believe that they can reach God without a priest. This is the difference of interpretations, but the general idea is the same, which is accepting the divinity of Jesus (Peace And Blessing Be Upon Him), and to take him as the savior.

Now, the Lutherans believe in Sola Fide, which is basically the fact that one can enter heaven, only through faith alone, while other sects also take the importance that a Christian who keeps sinning constantly, is not following Jesus's will, and leaving.

The same happen between Sunnis and Shias who fight each other. I hope I cleared some of your misconceptions, and again, Christians can answer better regarding this issue.

If I am wrong, then forgive me, and please correct me. Thank you.

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:15 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
HollowScar wrote:Hey Mr. paarsurrey,

HollowScar wrote:Islam is a meaningful religion if you live in it, as a liberal. I know that the rich and poor stand together in prayer, and everyone greets everyone with cheerfulness. I know that Islam makes more sense, and is good for a person's psychology, if they just follow the five pillars.


paarsurrey wrote:Hi friend HollowScar

I appreciate your above words.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks


It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion, but in it's core lies the problems. This is another issue, but other than this, Islam is truly a way of life, and is more like a culture to many.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding Christianity, I think you can find better answers from a Christian. The way they enforce their religion is their choice. Humankind exists and causes difference from each other. As for the origination of Christianity, different people witnessed it, and wrote their accounts. They all had different perspectives, so there are some contradictions, but the general idea is the same. Now, there were some verses that were taken out, but the essence is still there.

Even, Islam agrees that the crucifixion happened, but it was someone else. Was Allah aware that by putting someone else in that position who resembled Jesus, he would be causing the creation of the worlds largest religion?

Also, Christians are all the same in their basic principles. They have the ten commandments, which they should follow with their hearts, and they will be ok. Now the Catholics say that God can be reached through the priests, while Protestants believe that they can reach God without a priest. This is the difference of interpretations, but the general idea is the same, which is accepting the divinity of Jesus (Peace And Blessing Be Upon Him), and to take him as the savior.

Now, the Lutherans believe in Sola Fide, which is basically the fact that one can enter heaven, only through faith alone, while other sects also take the importance that a Christian who keeps sinning constantly, is not following Jesus's will, and leaving.

The same happen between Sunnis and Shias who fight each other. I hope I cleared some of your misconceptions, and again, Christians can answer better regarding this issue.

If I am wrong, then forgive me, and please correct me. Thank you.


Hello HollowScar! Not a bad explanation insofar as it goes. The problem we Christians have is when the Bible is not taken as a whole. There is BALANCE in some issues when one has studied the whole and not build doctrines on small parts. For example, James wrote that faith without works is dead. Of course, he is right. But he NEVER said we are saved by works. Paul wrote in Ephesians that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works lest any man should boast. (chapter 2:8 & 9) There is no contradiction. REAL faith will have works follow because one with real faith loves God and desires to serve Him. But that is not how we get salvation. That was already purchased by the blood of Christ, and we receive salvation by faith in Him.

Only God knows the heart of a man/woman, but if one continues in a LIFESTYLE of sin, there is reason to doubt their relationship with Christ is real. The writer of Hebrews says that salvation can be lost. Other scriptures would suggest that it does not happen easily. The only way I see to lose salvation, once one has tasted of the Holy Spirit as Hebrews says.... is to turn one's back on God and deny Him. God does not cast his children out, but neither does he enslave them. He draws us by love. Calvinism says that once one is saved they are always saved. Armenianism says one can lose salvation. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

We in Christendom do have differences in minor doctrinal issues. But we agree on a few certain things: Salvation is by faith in Christ and his shed blood for our sin, Jesus is God (the trinity thing), and there is an eternal life.

Those who teach faith by works are considered cults by the church as a whole. Those who deny the deity of Christ are considered cults by the church as a whole. Those who deny eternal life with God are cults. This means that although they claim Christianity, the rest of Christendom does not recognize Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or certain other organizations as "Christian." Those few key beliefs must be there for an organization to be considered "Christian" by the large majority of churches.

I hope that helps.

Peace, Shalom

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:21 am
by skynightblaze
HollowScar wrote:It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion, but in it's core lies the problems. This is another issue, but other than this, Islam is truly a way of life, and is more like a culture to many.


Islam is a way of life ?Like raping of slaves?

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:32 am
by HollowScar
Hello HollowScar! Not a bad explanation insofar as it goes. The problem we Christians have is when the Bible is not taken as a whole. There is BALANCE in some issues when one has studied the whole and not build doctrines on small parts. For example, James wrote that faith without works is dead. Of course, he is right. But he NEVER said we are saved by works. Paul wrote in Ephesians that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works lest any man should boast. (chapter 2:8 & 9) There is no contradiction. REAL faith will have works follow because one with real faith loves God and desires to serve Him. But that is not how we get salvation. That was already purchased by the blood of Christ, and we receive salvation by faith in Him.

Only God knows the heart of a man/woman, but if one continues in a LIFESTYLE of sin, there is reason to doubt their relationship with Christ is real. The writer of Hebrews says that salvation can be lost. Other scriptures would suggest that it does not happen easily. The only way I see to lose salvation, once one has tasted of the Holy Spirit as Hebrews says.... is to turn one's back on God and deny Him. God does not cast his children out, but neither does he enslave them. He draws us by love. Calvinism says that once one is saved they are always saved. Armenianism says one can lose salvation. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

We in Christendom do have differences in minor doctrinal issues. But we agree on a few certain things: Salvation is by faith in Christ and his shed blood for our sin, Jesus is God (the trinity thing), and there is an eternal life.

Those who teach faith by works are considered cults by the church as a whole. Those who deny the deity of Christ are considered cults by the church as a whole. Those who deny eternal life with God are cults. This means that although they claim Christianity, the rest of Christendom does not recognize Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or certain other organizations as "Christian." Those few key beliefs must be there for an organization to be considered "Christian" by the large majority of churches.

I hope that helps.

Peace, Shalom


That is indeed a very detailed explanation, which I was unaware of. So in short, the scriptures do not define faith, but faith defines scriptures. I have a Mormon friend, and he truly believes that since Christianity has been changed, and such, the Book of Mormon is an expansion of the Bible. I wonder, if these people will also be saved or not.

How about those who lust? That includes people who constantly keep "looking around". Is that bad too, since it is considered to be adultery from the heart? Will these people end up in hell?

Islam is a way of life ?Like raping of slaves?


How often do you see people raping slaves? In today's world, Islam is like a second culture. From wearing Hijab, to celebrating Eid together, to forming a community, to greeting each other, Islam has a whole bunch of things that reunite muslims. I am from Bangladesh, and yet I have had Arab friends who were muslims too. In my polytechnic institute, I knew a lot of people from lots of different programs, because we gathered to pray at certain times. Of course, now I don't go, and have lost touch with some of them. By the way, I am talking about Islam of the West.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:26 am
by skynightblaze
HollowScar wrote:How often do you see people raping slaves?


We are talking about religion and not people. My claim is islam is not the way of life.The word islam means quran and the hadiths and not muslims. Now if muslims dont rape prisoners of war then they arent really following what islam tells them to do and that is because many muslims are a good people .IT only takes them their religion to do bad things. My claim is against religion of islam or the text and not against muslims.If we consider what islam says then really its not a way of life but a way of doom.

HollowScar wrote:In today's world, Islam is like a second culture. From wearing Hijab, to celebrating Eid together, to forming a community, to greeting each other, Islam has a whole bunch of things that reunite muslims.


A few good things dont invalidate the bad or I should say the worst things that islam tells mankind to do just like raping of prisoners of war.Just like islam unites muslims it also disunites kafirs and muslims. IT does divide the world into 2 groups muslims and non muslims so this ideology cannot be a way of life. WOuld you say that nazism was also a way of life just because it united some people who had similar beliefs? An ideology cannot be a way of life if it does the worst things even if it has some good things in it too.

HollowScar wrote: I am from Bangladesh, and yet I have had Arab friends who were muslims too. In my polytechnic institute, I knew a lot of people from lots of different programs, because we gathered to pray at certain times. Of course, now I don't go, and have lost touch with some of them. By the way, I am talking about Islam of the West.


We are talking about the religion and not people.My claim is islam is not the way of life in the real sense.Its a path to destruction.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:22 am
by HollowScar
We are talking about religion and not people. My claim is islam is not the way of life.The word islam means quran and the hadiths and not muslims. Now if muslims dont rape prisoners of war then they arent really following what islam tells them to do and that is because many muslims are a good people .IT only takes them their religion to do bad things. My claim is against religion of islam or the text and not against muslims.If we consider what islam says then really its not a way of life but a way of doom.


I am talking about people, and not the religion as much. Yes, Islam allows for people to have intercourse with slaves, but that is a very weak notion, not supported by many muslims in the west. The same goes for child marriages. Islam may not be the truth, but it is one way of life, which many muslims use to live with. Now if you are suggesting that many muslims are not being true by not raping slaves, then they are not being true, when they skip one prayer. They are not being true, when they choose to not get married. They are not being true, when they lust. You see, flaws are very easy to pick, but many muslims try to be true.

A few good things dont invalidate the bad or I should say the worst things that islam tells mankind to do just like raping of prisoners of war.Just like islam unites muslims it also disunites kafirs and muslims. IT does divide the world into 2 groups muslims and non muslims so this ideology cannot be a way of life. WOuld you say that nazism was also a way of life just because it united some people who had similar beliefs? An ideology cannot be a way of life if it does the worst things even if it has some good things in it too.


It's not a few good things. The muslims of the west are trying to make a positive impact, and live a peaceful life, but certain people would rather look at the core of the religion, and find flaws, which many modern western muslims, won't care much about.When Ramadan comes, they actually donate money, other than taxes. Amongst each other, they treat themselves like brothers and sisters.

Also, many muslims have Kaafir friends in the west, and they don't have a problem with that. So, why should anybody else? Yes, Kaafirs choose to be different, but they have different lifestyles too. A respectful muslim won't use his weekends to chug beer, or party hard. They would rather go and meet friends and have conversations of importance. Now there are Kaafirs who do that to, but it does not mean they always get discriminated.

Nazis actually wiped out many people, and convinced the locals. Muslims in the west are not even close to doing such things. Muslims in Bangladesh, United Arab Emirates, and other countries respect outsiders in many cases. Now, if you choose to purposefully go to certain countries like Afghanistan, what are you going to expect?

Again, Islam is one way of life, that one can choose to live by. It is by no means, the truth. Islam in it's core may be a disease to you, but if you try to follow only the five pillars of Islam, you can see the beauty of it.

We are talking about the religion and not people.My claim is islam is not the way of life in the real sense.Its a path to destruction.


Destruction comes from human beings. Now, suppose if you take an age old war of self defense, and kill innocents, to indirectly attack a nation, then is it the religion's fault, or is it your mentality? Islam only tells you to attack for self defense. It tells you not to attack women and children. It tells you not to attack someone from the back.

There are many good things in Islam, but if you choose to focus on the things like raping slaves, enslaving women, massacring people, and polygamy, then all I can say is that, many muslims don't follow these ideas. That's because they are not forced to do so.

The Qur'an does not force them to marry four wives, and neither does it tell them to attack heedless innocents including children and women. The Qur'an does not force them to treat their women like slaves, but rather tells them to take care of their spouses. Islam actually says men to provide for women, and if the man does not choose to do so, then she has the right to take from him without his permission. Islam tells women to dress modestly, and for men to lower their gazes. Islam tells to help each other, and to pray together. These are things a muslim has to worry about in the west, more than slaves, and such.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:18 pm
by skynightblaze
HollowScar wrote:I am talking about people, and not the religion as much. Yes, Islam allows for people to have intercourse with slaves, but that is a very weak notion, not supported by many muslims in the west. The same goes for child marriages. Islam may not be the truth, but it is one way of life, which many muslims use to live with. Now if you are suggesting that many muslims are not being true by not raping slaves, then they are not being true, when they skip one prayer. They are not being true, when they choose to not get married. They are not being true, when they lust. You see, flaws are very easy to pick, but many muslims try to be true.


You are talking about people but that was never your argument.You clearly said that islam is a way of life which meant we are supposed to talk about religion and not muslims. Now what you have said above cannot be denied but you are forgetting that there are muslims who practice all the evils that islam has.Well when you say that islam is a way of life then you have to accept islam in its entirety because islam = good parts + bad parts so if you are just following the good parts then you are not following the islam in the real sense because your religion expects you to follow every part of it.

Its actually good that you and some of your friends reject the bad ones and only pick the good ones but what about those who pick those bad parts? How can you convince them that they are wrong ?Since you have accepted that islam is a way of life you cannot convince them that its bad because what they do is very much islamic and also your acceptance of islam being a way of life hinders you from opposing them.

You may argue that those muslims who practice such evil teachings are very few in number.I even accept that argument but to commit horrendous crimes against mankind we dont need all the lot of muslims to follow those evil teachings for e.g out of 1.2 billion muslims on this planet say only 5,000(which is not even 0.1 % of the total muslim population) become terrorists by picking up bad parts of islam then they are sufficient to blow the entire world and thats why I say islam cannot be a way of life since even if handful of muslims follow those teachings as they can be a threat to mankind.

HollowScar wrote:It's not a few good things. The muslims of the west are trying to make a positive impact, and live a peaceful life, but certain people would rather look at the core of the religion, and find flaws, which many modern western muslims, won't care much about.When Ramadan comes, they actually donate money, other than taxes. Amongst each other, they treat themselves like brothers and sisters.

Also, many muslims have Kaafir friends in the west, and they don't have a problem with that. So, why should anybody else? Yes, Kaafirs choose to be different, but they have different lifestyles too. A respectful muslim won't use his weekends to chug beer, or party hard. They would rather go and meet friends and have conversations of importance. Now there are Kaafirs who do that to, but it does not mean they always get discriminated.

Nazis actually wiped out many people, and convinced the locals. Muslims in the west are not even close to doing such things. Muslims in Bangladesh, United Arab Emirates, and other countries respect outsiders in many cases. Now, if you choose to purposefully go to certain countries like Afghanistan, what are you going to expect?


I agree with all your post here but even in the west some muslims become terrorists. Its not that each and every muslim in the west is innocent. So now acceptance of islam as a way of life is harming mankind by producing only a fraction of people amongst muslims in the west and other countries who become beasts and all because of acceptance of islam. Should we still accept islam as a way of life in general ? I already said handful of sinners amongst muslims who blindly follow the bad teachings of islam are sufficient to cause heavy casualties.

HollowScar wrote:Again, Islam is one way of life, that one can choose to live by. It is by no means, the truth. Islam in it's core may be a disease to you, but if you try to follow only the five pillars of Islam, you can see the beauty of it.


Eventhough jihad is not mentioned in the 5 pillars there are hadiths which tells us that Jihad is more important than some of the 5 pillars of islam.Lets see that hadith..


Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad).
The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodess)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca) 'Mubrur, (which is accepted by Allah and is performed with the intention of seeking Allah's pleasure only and not to show off and without committing a sin and in accordance with the traditions of the Prophet).


Here Jihad is placed before Hajj and immediately after the first pillar i,e faith in Allah and his messenger . A point should be noted that its obligatory for a muslim to do Jihad immediately after he announces faith in the messenger and Allah.There are more hadiths which slightly narrate a different order of placing Jihad but still the bottom line stays that jihad is actually a pillar of islam.Other than jihad rest are ok.

HollowScar wrote:Destruction comes from human beings. Now, suppose if you take an age old war of self defense, and kill innocents, to indirectly attack a nation, then is it the religion's fault, or is it your mentality? Islam only tells you to attack for self defense. It tells you not to attack women and children. It tells you not to attack someone from the back.


Well I wont accuse you for lying since you appear a honest person seeking for truth.I would say you are misinformed.

Lie no 1: Islam only tells you to attack for self defense

Lie no 2:It tells you not to attack women and children. It tells you not to attack someone from the back

I can prove all this if you want. I am not asking you to believe me blindly. Believe only If I convince you by logic.

There are many good things in Islam, but if you choose to focus on the things like raping slaves, enslaving women, massacring people, and polygamy, then all I can say is that, many muslims don't follow these ideas. That's because they are not forced to do so.


Not all muslims follow those ideas but some do and thats why I have a problem in accepting islam as a way of life.

The Qur'an does not force them to marry four wives, and neither does it tell them to attack heedless innocents including children and women. The Qur'an does not force them to treat their women like slaves, but rather tells them to take care of their spouses. Islam actually says men to provide for women, and if the man does not choose to do so, then she has the right to take from him without his permission. Islam tells women to dress modestly, and for men to lower their gazes. Islam tells to help each other, and to pray together. These are things a muslim has to worry about in the west, more than slaves, and such.


You forgot the insulting treatment that quran and hadiths have for women.Want me to show them? its good that you are picking the good things from islam but same is the not the case with all the muslims and thats why keeping islam is dangerous. It needs to be banned as who will decide what to keep from islam and what to not? There will always be a conflict.