Page 7 of 11

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:55 pm
by KufirbintKufr
Marie wrote:Hollowscar whatever paarsurrey says about Christianity just ignore him. paarsurrey is the resident Ahmadi Muslim sent here to proselytize to nonmuslims.


He is so clueless about Christianity yet so sure. Sad.
But he is not open for discussion so it is waste of time to refute him.

By reffering as "friend" to Christians and Jews he denies his own Quran teachings.

I consider adding "Quran is a blasphemy againt Jesus and Mary" as my permament signature. :roll:

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:09 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
iffo wrote:
Marie
Me:iffo does your friend attend a Church that has a liturgical service or do they sing praise the lord Hallelujah?

iffo: I don't know what you are talking about. I've never been inside a church and I am just showing off here.

Me: You are just showing of then? Then why don't you use that putty inside your head that is suppose to be a brain and read a book. Once you start reading and learnthe brain cells in your head will start working


LOLLLLLLLLL you are a dumb missionary who will be jobless soon in your own country. :D


Missionary??? WTF is wrong with your head?? Why are Muslims always so weird and stupid?

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:11 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
HollowScar wrote:It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion.


What's beautiful about it?

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:38 pm
by Wootah
Its just your wishful thinking, show how little you know about muslims. 99% of muslims will not leave Islam even if you offer them the whole world.
This is why I think no one has left Islam, everyone that left was faking it and never a real Muslim. Personally I think and agree that we can't tell what part of a person is Muslim and what part is their culture. When there is freedom to be what you want to be in more countries then Islam will see a much more truthful account of how many people desire to be Muslim.

This is Islamophobia, it fits Islamophobe like yourself perfect
Is there such a thing as Atheistophobia or Christophobia?

Hate people who are hurting you not just everybody. We mind our business why can't you. Don't be someone like who is "Born to hate". If Islam is spreading , then don't be jealous, ask yourself why people are attracted to it. Don't hate us we are not putting gun to anyone head to join Islam in west. If any muslim cause problem there, deport them. They should respect the law of the land.
If you understood freedom of choice, then you would understand that someone disagreeing with you is not hate. Furthermore if you understood hate then you would understand hate is an acceptable emotional response. I hate cancer for instance. Many people are driven by their hate for cancer and what it does to their loved ones to try to find a cure to cancer. Of course I think long term, hate consumes, but I don't think for a moment one must dwell on hate in order to remember what they like and don't like.

Even, Islam agrees that the crucifixion happened, but it was someone else. Was Allah aware that by putting someone else in that position who resembled Jesus, he would be causing the creation of the worlds largest religion?
I never thought of that question. I'll put that in the armoury.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:55 pm
by KufirbintKufr
Wootah wrote:
Is there such a thing as Atheistophobia or Christophobia?



:)

Or Hinduphobia, Buddhismphobia ?

Only muslims play the victim card...Others can deal with the fact that they are hated, persecuted.
Muslims are the only group which is not persecuted. How very telling.

Show me one country where muslims are persecuted.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:49 am
by HollowScar
You are talking about people but that was never your argument.You clearly said that islam is a way of life which meant we are supposed to talk about religion and not muslims. Now what you have said above cannot be denied but you are forgetting that there are muslims who practice all the evils that islam has.Well when you say that islam is a way of life then you have to accept islam in its entirety because islam = good parts + bad parts so if you are just following the good parts then you are not following the islam in the real sense because your religion expects you to follow every part of it.


When I said that Islam is a way of life, I meant that it is a way of life for many. Many people live Islam in their day to day lives. Every religion has some good and bad. In Islam, that is a lot of bad. I would have still followed it if it was the truth, but it isn't. That's why I left. Now, I am trying to focus on the muslims of the west, who do not do many of the evil things, that Islam is all about.

Its actually good that you and some of your friends reject the bad ones and only pick the good ones but what about those who pick those bad parts? How can you convince them that they are wrong ?Since you have accepted that islam is a way of life you cannot convince them that its bad because what they do is very much islamic and also your acceptance of islam being a way of life hinders you from opposing them.


It is about interpretation. Now, if you use polygamy to feed four women, and give them happiness, then who is stopping you to do just that. Unfortunately many misuse it. Again, Islam is one way of life, if people accept it. By that, I mean that it is not only a religion, but a culture, a tradition, and a whole bunch of morals, that pretty much come into play on a day to day basis.

You may argue that those muslims who practice such evil teachings are very few in number.I even accept that argument but to commit horrendous crimes against mankind we dont need all the lot of muslims to follow those evil teachings for e.g out of 1.2 billion muslims on this planet say only 5,000(which is not even 0.1 % of the total muslim population) become terrorists by picking up bad parts of islam then they are sufficient to blow the entire world and thats why I say islam cannot be a way of life since even if handful of muslims follow those teachings as they can be a threat to mankind.


True, but if people choose to take verses of self defense, and read that martyrs go to heaven by dying in self defense, then they choose to misguide themselves by causing death of innocents, then are they not brainwashed? Add to that the concept of the raisins, which can be misunderstood for virgins, and you have a political war in the name of religion, where the terrorists kill themselves by being naive, and the leaders benefit.

I agree with all your post here but even in the west some muslims become terrorists. Its not that each and every muslim in the west is innocent. So now acceptance of islam as a way of life is harming mankind by producing only a fraction of people amongst muslims in the west and other countries who become beasts and all because of acceptance of islam. Should we still accept islam as a way of life in general ? I already said handful of sinners amongst muslims who blindly follow the bad teachings of islam are sufficient to cause heavy casualties.


Again, how many mullahs in the west give the orders? Not many. Their are some bad apples, who fueled with hatred, choose to use religion as an excuse. Now, what you say can be used against every religion. Now, here in the west, many homosexuals feel discriminated, and are fought against, so will you consider that as a bad action, or does your sympathy only go towards the bigger problems of mass destruction?

Eventhough jihad is not mentioned in the 5 pillars there are hadiths which tells us that Jihad is more important than some of the 5 pillars of islam.Lets see that hadith..


Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad).
The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodess)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca) 'Mubrur, (which is accepted by Allah and is performed with the intention of seeking Allah's pleasure only and not to show off and without committing a sin and in accordance with the traditions of the Prophet).


Here Jihad is placed before Hajj and immediately after the first pillar i,e faith in Allah and his messenger . A point should be noted that its obligatory for a muslim to do Jihad immediately after he announces faith in the messenger and Allah.There are more hadiths which slightly narrate a different order of placing Jihad but still the bottom line stays that jihad is actually a pillar of islam.Other than jihad rest are ok.


There are two jihads. The higher and the lower one. The higher jihad is when every muslim wakes up in the morning, and tries to be the best muslim he can until night. It is the struggle against lust, greed, lies, modesty, swearing, and such. It is the struggle to be a good muslim. The lower jihad is the war of self defense. If anybody comes between you and your religion, you are supposed to defend yourself.

I am not a muslim, but jihad is the most misunderstood word amongst many.

Well I wont accuse you for lying since you appear a honest person seeking for truth.I would say you are misinformed.

Lie no 1: Islam only tells you to attack for self defense

Lie no 2:It tells you not to attack women and children. It tells you not to attack someone from the back

I can prove all this if you want. I am not asking you to believe me blindly. Believe only If I convince you by logic.


This is what I learned as a former muslim, so if I am lying, then proove me wrong. Because even hadiths have a back story to them. When I argued with my muslim friends about Muhammad killing Jews, he told me that it was because the jews were trying to assassinate him, regardless of his warnings. Therefore, I cannot take Hadiths as satisfactory proof, for the lack of the back story.

Not all muslims follow those ideas but some do and thats why I have a problem in accepting islam as a way of life.


No, but not all human beings follow their religions with utter goodness either.

You forgot the insulting treatment that quran and hadiths have for women.Want me to show them? its good that you are picking the good things from islam but same is the not the case with all the muslims and thats why keeping islam is dangerous. It needs to be banned as who will decide what to keep from islam and what to not? There will always be a conflict.


I will show you.

Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey AND A WOMAN (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away, for I disliked to face him." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490)
Abu Dharr reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, HIS PRAYER WOULD BE CUT OFF BY (passing of an) ASS, WOMAN, AND BLACK DOG.I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1032)

Abu Huraira reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: A WOMAN, AN ASS AND A DOG DISRUPT THE PRAYER, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034)

Now I know this, as I did research a while back. But Muhammad also told his followers to hit their wives with miswak (a form of toothbrush), and you can see that this must have been some sort of sarcasm, as he was brushing at the time, and could have told to hit women with much painful things.

He also said to love your daughters, as he had daughters too. Now what the hadiths mention above say, could have been looked at differently if we were physically there. For instance, when a man looks at a woman, he may lose concentration, and lust out of curiosity. This could mean anything. We don't know for sure. Again, I don't know why I am defending Islam, but I choose not to be ignorant, and fill myself with hate. There are some problems with Islam, but one should understand that there are problems among many things.

Take for instance drinking and driving. You know how much damage it does. Just read the story of Jacqueline Saburido at http://www.viciousenterprises.com/summersblog/drinking-and-driving-jacqueline-saburido Now, would you ban alcohol? Look at what the swine flu did? It is a known fact that pigs eat anything including garbage, and what not, so will you allow bacon to be banned? Would you ban democracy, as it eventually turns into oligarchy in one way or another? These are questions, that need to be answered. Ban Islam today, and something else will come tomorrow.

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:53 am
by HollowScar
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
HollowScar wrote:It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion.


What's beautiful about it?


It is beautiful, when you hear adhan, and go to pray in a mosque, among many shoulder to shoulder. It is beautiful, when you fast, for the sake of the poor, and donate money. It is beautiful when one muslim greets another muslim. It is beautiful, when everybody gets together to celebrate Eid. Now, I know there are a lot of bad things, but in it's basis, you can find peace. In today's materialistic world, Islam comes a form of good psychology for many, who think they are on the right path, and pray to God.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:52 am
by crazymonkie_
There are many, many other religions that have exactly these same aspects to them. Communion with divinity? Yup. Social interaction? Yes. Fasting, praying? Indeed. And what's so special about co-religionists greeting each other with respect? It's easy to greet people who you like with warm words.

The entire point of most religions, at least today, is to go beyond simple materialism. Islam doesn't have anything close to a monopoly on anything you've mentioned. And trust me- as someone who has spent a good number of years researching different beliefs, faiths living and dead, Islam is NOT one of the best, by any stretch.

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:15 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
HollowScar wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
HollowScar wrote:It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion.


What's beautiful about it?


It is beautiful, when you hear adhan, and go to pray in a mosque, among many shoulder to shoulder.


OK, so it's beautiful because many people join together in prayer, like with other religions.

HollowScar wrote: It is beautiful, when you fast, for the sake of the poor,


Fasting is for the sake of the poor?

HollowScar wrote: and donate money.


Doesn't every religion do that?

HollowScar wrote: It is beautiful when one muslim greets another muslim. It is beautiful, when everybody gets together to celebrate Eid. Now, I know there are a lot of bad things, but in it's basis, you can find peace. In today's materialistic world, Islam comes a form of good psychology for many, who think they are on the right path, and pray to God.


Why would you need Islam or be a Muslim to do those things?

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:17 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
crazymonkie_ wrote:There are many, many other religions that have exactly these same aspects to them. Communion with divinity? Yup. Social interaction? Yes. Fasting, praying? Indeed. And what's so special about co-religionists greeting each other with respect?

The entire point of most religions, at least today, is to go beyond simple materialism. Islam doesn't have anything close to a monopoly on anything you've mentioned. And trust me- as someone who has spent a good number of years researching different beliefs, faiths living and dead, Islam is NOT one of the best, by any stretch.


"It's easy to greet people who you like with warm words."

Matthew 5:
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now THAT'S beautiful.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:15 pm
by iffo
Matthew 5:
Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you,


Not prcatical, infact STUPID

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:36 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
iffo wrote:
Matthew 5:
Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you,


Not prcatical, infact STUPID


That's why you are a Muslim iffo, because you have no depth.
Do not even the pagans greet only their brothers? So what reward should you deserve? What are you doing that's any better than them if you merely only greet your own brothers? You don't even get it. Does God not send rain down and shine the sun on his enemies as well as his followers?

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:37 pm
by iffo
Muhammad bin Lyin
That's why you are a Muslim iffo, because you have no depth.
Do not even the pagans greet only their brothers? So what reward should you deserve? What are you doing that's any better than them if you merely only greet your own brothers? You don't even get it. Does God not send rain down and shine the sun on his enemies as well as his followers?


I repeat, its no practical and plain DUMB.

Don't try to act like Gandi here and talk big.

Try forgeting OBL if you can, or people who brought down WTT. Lets see if you can do that.
Don't talk nonsene with me here.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:18 pm
by KufirbintKufr
iffo wrote:
Matthew 5:
Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you,


Not prcatical, infact STUPID


This should be shown to anyone who claims Allah is the God from the Bible.

Poor iffo...Try to imagine the worst enemy you ever have had and bless him in your mind...Do you know how tranquil you will feel? Try it...

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:06 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
KufirbintKufr wrote:
iffo wrote:
Matthew 5:
Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you,


Not prcatical, infact STUPID


This should be shown to anyone who claims Allah is the God from the Bible.

Poor iffo...Try to imagine the worst enemy you ever have had and bless him in your mind...Do you know how tranquil you will feel? Try it...



Jesus even loved his enemies who tortured him and as he suffered on the cross, he said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." If iffo is an example of a Muslim, and he cannot see past his hate to love someone who is not his friend, if he has no compassion for those who are not part of his religion.... then I have no use for Islam, but I will continue to pray for Muslims to see the truth and leave that dreadful cult!

Peace, Shalom .... and may God forgive iffo for his lack of understanding what God's love is about. Amen.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:00 am
by iffo
First fogive Osama or people who brought down WTT, let see can you do that, can you?

Again don't preach/lecture stuff that you can not do yourself..... Again total DUMB meaningless big talk.

Re: The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:46 am
by Marie
HollowScar wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
HollowScar wrote:It is the truth. In it's basis, Islam is ok. I have lived in the west for about six years now, and if anything, muslims are brothers and sisters here. There is a reason, why people choose to convert. It is a beautiful religion.


What's beautiful about it?


It is beautiful, when you hear adhan, and go to pray in a mosque, among many shoulder to shoulder. It is beautiful, when you fast, for the sake of the poor, and donate money. It is beautiful when one muslim greets another muslim. It is beautiful, when everybody gets together to celebrate Eid. Now, I know there are a lot of bad things, but in it's basis, you can find peace. In today's materialistic world, Islam comes a form of good psychology for many, who think they are on the right path, and pray to God.


Isn't it beautiful when Muslims are pigging out and having orgies after fasting during Ramadan.

Isn't it beautiful when the crime and road accident rate go up during Ramadan or some other Muslim holiday because people are irritated from fasting all day long.

Isn't it beautiful when many Muslims are starving and have to live off the 2% wealthy Muslims give them.

Isn't it beautiful when Muslim Arabs treat non-arab Muslims like sh*t.

Islam does not form a good psychology for many, because many Muslims are poor and therefore creates a mindset of depravity and desperation.

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:57 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
iffo wrote:First fogive Osama or people who brought down WTT, let see can you do that, can you?

Again don't preach/lecture stuff that you can not do yourself..... Again total DUMB meaningless big talk.



You may be surprised at how much forgiveness is in my heart. The people who brought down the WTC were deceived and deluded. I recognize they committed murder, but I also know they have lost their souls. For that I am sad. I was also sad when Saddam Hussein was hung. Not because he was innocent. He was very guilty. But he too is a person created by God.

There is an ancient Jewish story that says when Pharoah's army was drowned in the Red Sea (See of Reeds), the angels in Heaven were celebrating. Then they noticed God was weeping. They asked him why he was weeping and God said, "Do you not know that these were my children too?" You see, we all choose what/whom to believe. We choose whom we will serve. Those who reject the true and living God bring death upon themselves, like Islamic terrorists who destroy their own lives. God takes no pleasure in this. But He does allow us our freedom to choose.

When any soul descends to the pit of Hell, I see no reason to rejoice. The people I choose to be friends with do not hate Muslims. We pray for them, knowing that our Lord Jesus calls all to Himself, offering forgiveness and peace. I wish you that peace.

Peace, Shalom

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:13 am
by iffo
ThereIs1Adonai
You may be surprised at how much forgiveness is in my heart. The people who brought down the WTC were deceived and deluded. I recognize they committed murder, but I also know they have lost their souls. For that I am sad. I was also sad when Saddam Hussein was hung. Not because he was innocent. He was very guilty. But he too is a person created by God.

There is an ancient Jewish story that says when Pharoah's army was drowned in the Red Sea (See of Reeds), the angels in Heaven were celebrating. Then they noticed God was weeping. They asked him why he was weeping and God said, "Do you not know that these were my children too?" You see, we all choose what/whom to believe. We choose whom we will serve. Those who reject the true and living God bring death upon themselves, like Islamic terrorists who destroy their own lives. God takes no pleasure in this. But He does allow us our freedom to choose.

When any soul descends to the pit of Hell, I see no reason to rejoice. The people I choose to be friends with do not hate Muslims. We pray for them, knowing that our Lord Jesus calls all to Himself, offering forgiveness and peace. I wish you that peace.

Then please try to convince your country mate who are mostly Christains to forgive them .... let see if they listen to you

Re: France Invaded

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:28 am
by Marie
iffo wrote:
ThereIs1Adonai
You may be surprised at how much forgiveness is in my heart. The people who brought down the WTC were deceived and deluded. I recognize they committed murder, but I also know they have lost their souls. For that I am sad. I was also sad when Saddam Hussein was hung. Not because he was innocent. He was very guilty. But he too is a person created by God.

There is an ancient Jewish story that says when Pharoah's army was drowned in the Red Sea (See of Reeds), the angels in Heaven were celebrating. Then they noticed God was weeping. They asked him why he was weeping and God said, "Do you not know that these were my children too?" You see, we all choose what/whom to believe. We choose whom we will serve. Those who reject the true and living God bring death upon themselves, like Islamic terrorists who destroy their own lives. God takes no pleasure in this. But He does allow us our freedom to choose.

When any soul descends to the pit of Hell, I see no reason to rejoice. The people I choose to be friends with do not hate Muslims. We pray for them, knowing that our Lord Jesus calls all to Himself, offering forgiveness and peace. I wish you that peace.

Then please try to convince your country mate who are mostly Christains to forgive them .... let see if they listen to you


Why are you soooo interested in seeing Americans forgive Osama Bin Laden?

Lets see is it because killing off 3,0000 Americans is seen as something holy in your mind?