Who are the Palestinians?

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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ygalg
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Who are the Palestinians?

Post by ygalg »

Yoram Ettinger Tuesday December 13, 2011

Contrary to political correctness, Palestinian Arabs have not been in the area west of the Jordan River from time immemorial; no Palestinian state ever existed, no Palestinian people was ever robbed of its land and there is no basis for the Palestinian “claim of return.”

Most Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the Muslim migrants who came to the area between 1845 to 1947 from the Sudan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, as well as from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, Bosnia, the Caucasus, Turkmenistan, Kurdistan, India, Afghanistan and Balochistan.

Arab migrant workers were imported by the Ottoman Empire and by the British Mandate (which defeated the Ottomans in 1917) for infrastructure projects: The port of Haifa, the Haifa-Qantara, Haifa-Edrei, Haifa-Nablus and Jerusalem-Jaffa railroads, military installations, roads, quarries, reclamation of wetlands, etc. Illegal Arab laborers were also attracted by the relative economic boom in British Mandate Palestine, stimulated by Jewish immigration.

According to a 1937 report by the British Peel Commission (Palestine Betrayed, Prof. Efraim Karsh, Yale University Press, 2010, p. 12), “The increase in the Arab population is most marked in urban areas, affected by Jewish development. A comparison of the census returns in 1922 and 1931 shows that, six years ago, the increase percent in Haifa was 86, in Jaffa 62, in Jerusalem 37, while in purely Arab towns such as Nablus and Hebron it was only 7, and at Gaza there was a decrease of 2 percent.”

As a result of the substantial Arab immigration between 1880 and 1947– and despite Arab emigration caused by domestic chaos and intra-Arab violence - the Arab population of Jaffa, Haifa and Ramla grew 17-, 12- and five-fold, respectively.

The conquest by Egypt's Mohammed Ali between the years of 1831 and 1840 was solidified by a flow of Egyptian migrants settling empty spaces between Gaza and Tulkarem up to the Hula Valley. They followed in the footsteps of thousands of Egyptian draft dodgers, who fled Egypt before 1831 and settled in Acre. The British traveler, H.B. Tristram, identified, in his 1865 "The Land of Israel: A journal of travels in Palestine" (p. 495), Egyptian migrants in the Beit Shean Valley, Acre, Hadera, Netanya and Jaffa.

The British Palestine Exploration Fund documented that Egyptian neighborhoods proliferated in the Jaffa area: Saknet el-Mussariya, Abu Kebir, Abu Derwish, Sumeil, Sheikh Muwanis, Salame', Fejja, etc. In 1917, the Arabs of Jaffa represented at least 25 ethnic groups, including Persians, Afghanis, Hindus and Balochis. Hundreds of Egyptian families settled in Ara’ Arara’, Kafer Qassem, Taiyiba and Qalansawa.

Many of the Arabs who fled in 1948 reunited with their families in Egypt and other neighboring countries.

"30,000-36,000 Syrian migrants (Huranis) entered Palestine during the last few months alone," reported La Syrie daily on August 12, 1934. Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, the role model for Hamas' terrorism, which plagued Jews as early as in the time of British Mandate Palestine, was Syrian, as were Said el-A'az, a leader of the 1936-38 anti-Jewish pogroms and Kaukji, the commander-in-chief of the Arab mercenaries who terrorized Jews in the 1930s and 1940s.

Libyan migrants settled in Gedera, south of Tel Aviv. Algerian refugees (Mugrabis) escaped the French conquest of 1830 and settled in Safed (alongside Syrians and Jordanian Bedouins), Tiberias and other parts of the Galilee. Circassian refugees, fleeing Russian oppression (1878) and Muslims from Bosnia, Turkmenistan, and Yemen (1908) diversified the Arab demography west of the Jordan River.

Mark Twain wrote in Innocents Abroad (American Publishing Company, 1969): “Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, Palestine must be the prince…. Palestine is desolate and unlovely.” Analyzing Mark Twain’s book, John Haynes Holmes, the pacifist Unitarian priest, cofounder of the American Civil Liberties Union and the author of "Palestine Today and Tomorrow – a Gentile’s Survey of Zionism" (McMillan, 1929) wrote: “This is the country to which the Jews have come to rebuild their ancient homeland…. On all the surface of this earth there is no home for the Jew save in the mountains and the well-springs of his ancient kingdom…. Everywhere else the Jew is in exile…. But, Palestine is his…. Scratch Palestine anywhere and you’ll find Israel…. [There exists] not a road, a spring, a mountain, a village, which does not awaken the name of some great [Jewish] king, or echo with the voice of some great [Jewish] prophet…. [The Jew] has a higher, nobler motive in Palestine than the economic…. This mission is to restore Zion; and Zion is Palestine.”

The Arab attempt to gain the moral high ground and to delegitimize the Jewish State - by employing the immoral reinvention of history and recreation of identity - was exposed by Arieh Avneri’s "The Claim of Dispossession" (Herzl Press, 1982) and Joan Peters’ "From Time Immemorial" (Harper & Row, 1986), which provide the aforementioned – and much more – data.
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... hp?id=1003
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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marduk
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Nobody can figure out what the Arabs really want. They don't want the Jews all to live in one little area, apparently, so I guess they want them to spread around the entire Middle East. Would they prefer that? They can't want them to go to the US or any European country, because then they would be where the Arabs are, you know, all those Arabs who moved there because their original home countries were so crappy. Arabs are just a bunch of malcontents. No matter what the Jews or unbelievers did they would gripe about it.

The problem isn't the rest of the world, it's them. Islam has made their lives miserable and they have nobody to blame for that but themselves. They're angry because they realize that Islam will never rule the world and will instead simply be a joke like Scientology, forever. The more the world advances, the stupider Islam is seen to be. It's not going to look any less stupid, that's for sure. The Internet was their worst enemy. Now EVERYBODY knows how stupid Islam is and everybody is making fun of them. That will never stop, why would it?

There is zero chance of everybody voluntarily joining Islam, now that they all know how dumb it is and that it's a fraud 100% proven by the Quran itself (Samaritan in Exodus for instance) and zero chance that they will be able to make their usual "offer you can't refuse", because they are so far behind the unbelievers militarily. Therefore, there is zero chance of their dream of world domination coming true. It's no longer a matter of who has the biggest horde of sword swingers. Now it's who is more efficient at developing scientifically and economically. They can't compete in those fields at all.

Islam is now completely irrelevant as a conquering army, other than in really undeveloped countries like in Africa. Being a combination of laughable and irrelevant is not a good thing, and that ticks them off. They aren't allowed to quit so they are stuck in the laughing stock religion for the rest of their miserable lives. If they stay in Islam we will mock them, if they leave Islam the other Muslims will mock them, and try to kill them. They're between a rock and a brick. That's why they are all mad at everything all the time. The stupidity of their ancestors, even their own parents, has doomed them to lives of mockery and/or a violent death by their "brothers" AND constant warfare with the other brand of Islam AND constant revolutions against their constant tyrannical leaders. I'd say their lives are pretty much hopeless, all because of Muhammad.

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pr126
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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ygalg
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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basically all nationalities, are an invention.

the distinction with palestinians, its not genuine self determination, but a political islamic propaganda. they don't even know the meaning of the name palestine or even the reason for the name. yet borrowed it nonetheless.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

Yohan
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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If jews are using bible to claim the land of Palestine, they are wrong. Bible makes it clear that Jews are not the natives of Palestine.

Who were the people living in the Palestine region at that time according to Bible? What happened to those people?

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ygalg
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Yohan wrote:If jews are using bible to claim the land of Palestine, they are wrong. Bible makes it clear that Jews are not the natives of Palestine.

Who were the people living in the Palestine region at that time according to Bible? What happened to those people?
can we trust the bible?
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

Yohan
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by Yohan »

ygalg wrote:
Yohan wrote:If jews are using bible to claim the land of Palestine, they are wrong. Bible makes it clear that Jews are not the natives of Palestine.

Who were the people living in the Palestine region at that time according to Bible? What happened to those people?
can we trust the bible?
What document can be trusted? Jews are busy proving Palestinians have no right. Palestinians are busy proving Jews have no right. So who has the right to the Palestine region?

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marduk
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by marduk »

Nobody over there has a "right" to the disputed lands. It's a simple matter of who has the military superiority to conquer and defend it, which has been shown to be the Jews. They proved it more than once but the Arabs just can't accept defeat. It's known as being annoying jerks. They took their shot, a few times, and failed miserably. They will never advance beyond Israel militarily and terrorism obviously isn't convincing the Jews to simply flee and leave it to them. The appropriate thing to do would be to accept their inferiority and move on with their lives, minus the hopeless goal of taking over Israel. That is just not a realistic probability and, no, the world won't say look at the poor little Arabs let's try to force Israel to simply hand over their hard won land to them.

Muslims are just delusional about everything, apparently. Delusional about the god of Abraham caring about the Ishmaelites, delusional about Muhammad being a prophet and delusional about defeating the Jews militarily or otherwise. Kind of sad to see idiots flailing around aimlessly like that, but don't bother trying to persuade them to stop. They just love wasting their time and effort on hopeless causes, so let them. They can all cry waaaah 24 hours a day, ain't gonna change a thing. They can go to Israel and blow themselves up every day, won't change a thing other than bringing them more contempt. Maybe they should face the reality that Islam is going nowhere fast and try something else.

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ygalg
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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palestinian unlike other identities, is but an islamic political tool to topple the jewish/israeli identity. this why it was invented. is there a nation self-determinant themselves for that reason? the very term 'palestine' is anti israeli. tho it is a derogatory word for the foe. it also identification for the biblical adversaries of the biblical Israelites. so it was not chose by coincidence. it was chosen to make a political statement against israel.

afterwards if they indeed annihilate israel, they will abandon the term, which they claim to be. in favor of muslim identity. that's how they truly identify themselves. by supporting this lie you supporting the end of the existence of the only democratic state in the region. you supporting the islamic supremacist ideology. which is hunger won't saturated until all the world under islamic supremacist rule.

Raleb Majadele, an israeli MK said at the time he appointed the first Muslim minister in israel
"אם יש סתירה בין הדת של כמוסלמי לבין השיקולים שלי כשר, יגבר השיקול של הדת ושל הלאום שלי"
translation: "if there is a contradiction between religion as a muslim to mine considerations as a minister, the consideration of religion and my nationality will take precedence". whatever the nationality means in the context, religion is the first priority as evident.

this is why in this particular matter its abnormal. does anyone sense the difference?
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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ygalg
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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What is Palestine?

Yoram Ettinger Friday December 16, 2011

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the geographic term “Palestine” was predominantly associated – from biblical times until the 1948 establishment of Israel - with the Jewish people, Jewish history and Jewish geography. It was the crux of Jewish national aspirations, the Jewish homeland.

In 135 A.D., Judea was renamed “Palestina” by the Roman Emperor Hadrian following the suppression of the Jewish uprising, in order to eradicate Jewish nationhood and to uproot the inherent Jewish attachment to the Land of Israel. Similarly, Jerusalem was renamed “Aelia Capitolina,” in honor of Aelius Hadrian and the Roman Capitol, in an attempt to obliterate Jewish association with the spiritual and physical core of Judaism.

Since 1949, and increasingly since 1967, the term “Palestine” has been employed by Israel’s enemies in order to delegitimize the existence of the Jewish state. In April 1950, Judea and Samaria were renamed “the West Bank” by the Jordanian occupation, in order to assert Jordanian rule and expunge Jewish connection to the cradle of Jewish history. Until 1950, all official Ottoman, British and prior records referred to "Judea and Samaria" and not to the "West Bank.”

"Palestine" is a derivative of the Hebrew term “Plishtim” (invaders), the Biblical name of the Philistines, non-Semites from the Greek islands and from Phoenicia, who migrated in the 12th century B.C.E. to Pleshet, along the Mediterranean. The term "Palestine" was established, in the 5th century B.C., by the Greek historian Herodotus and adopted in 135 A.D. by the Roman Empire in an attempt to erase "Judaea" from human memory.

According to Professor Bernard Lewis, the icon of Middle East historians (International History Review, January, 1980), “the earliest attempts at a territorial definition of the country later known as Palestine are in the Bible.” In its attempts to devastate Jewish national aspirations, the Roman Empire attached Palestine to the province of Syria. In 400 A.D., Palestine was split into Palestina Prima – with its capital in Caesarea – and Palestina Secunda – with its capital in Bethshean, further diminishing the stature of Jerusalem.

Lewis notes that the 7th century Arab conquest of Palestine perpetuated the neglect of Jerusalem, while elevating the status of Lydda, Ramla and Tiberias:

In the early medieval Arabic usage, Filastin [Palestine] and Urdunn [Jordan] were sub-districts forming part of the greater geographical entity known as Syria ... Under Roman, Byzantine and Islamic rule, Palestine was politically submerged. It reappeared only under the Crusaders ... the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem ...

“Under the successors of Saladin, and still more under the Mamluks, the country was redistributed in new territorial units … with its capital in Damascus…. After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, the country was divided into Ottoman administrative districts ... subject to the authority of the governor-general of Damascus ... [The term Palestine] was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense ...

With the British conquest in 1917-18, Palestine became the official name of a definite territory for the first time since the early Middle Ages…. Palestine at this moment included both banks of the Jordan ... On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. adopted a [non-binding] resolution approving the partition of mandatory Palestine into three components: a Jewish state, an Arab state and an international zone ... [The Arab] rejected the partition resolution and went to war to prevent its implementation ... The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.


The Land of Israel (Palestine) has played a critical role in Jewish history, religion, nationalism, culture, language and personal and communal relationships, compared with the marginal role played by Palestine in Arab and Muslim history. Hence the moral high ground for mandating the establishment of a Jewish state by the 1917 Balfour Declaration (on both sides of the Jordan River) and the 1922 League of Nations’ British Mandate for Palestine (from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean). Article 80 of the U.N. Charter upholds the “Mandate for Palestine” which has not been overruled until today.

The fact that most Arab towns and villages in Judea and Samaria have retained their original Biblical Jewish names highlights Jewish roots in the Land of Israel (Palestine). For example, Bethlehem, Hebron, A-Dura is Biblical Adora'yim, A-Ram is Haramah, Anata is Anatot, Batir is Beitar, Beit-Hur is Beit Horon, Beitin is Bethel, Mukhmas is Mikhmash, Seilun is Shilo, Tequa' is Teqoah, etc.

These sites are not occupied by the Jewish state. They are the epitome of the Jewish moral high ground and statehood in the Land of Israel, Palestine.
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... hp?id=1022
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Here in Australia we take very seriously the Aboriginal or indigenous connections with the land. If we paid half as much attention to the Jewish connection with Palestine, the whole so-called Arab Palestinian cause would collapse. The only fair and sensible outcome for Palestine is the one Jewish state solution that even many right wing Israelis hesitate to advocate. As I understand her, this is what Caroline Glick would like to see while being realistic enough to accept the status quo as the best that can be achieved for the time being.

The ones who suffer most in all of this are the Arab "Palestinians" who are essentially held hostage in Palestine by Arab/Muslim political forces unwilling to let any piece of land go that was once held by Islam. Without that silly idea prevailing, these local Arabs would have been repatriated a long time ago. Many of them actually back to the neighbouring countries from which they came in the first place, as migrant workers helping to build proto-Israeli infrastructure.

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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ygalg wrote:
What is Palestine?

Yoram Ettinger Friday December 16, 2011

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the geographic term “Palestine” was predominantly associated – from biblical times until the 1948 establishment of Israel - with the Jewish people, Jewish history and Jewish geography. It was the crux of Jewish national aspirations, the Jewish homeland.
------
These sites are not occupied by the Jewish state. They are the epitome of the Jewish moral high ground and statehood in the Land of Israel, Palestine.
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... hp?id=1022
I am not a believer of homeland for any religious or ethnic groups. That includes Jews and Muslims. If you don't believe me, what do you say about a homeland for Sikhs, Mormons, Buddhists, and so on. Both Jews and Muslims need to wake up and smell the coffee, I mean the modern world.

The land of Palestine and Israel should be renamed Canaan, the original name of the land before the time of the Jews and Muslims. All the people living there must be christianized. That should solve this never ending bruh-ha-ha between Jews and the Palestinians.

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Yohan wrote: I am not a believer of homeland for any religious or ethnic groups. That includes Jews and Muslims. If you don't believe me, what do you say about a homeland for Sikhs, Mormons, Buddhists, and so on. Both Jews and Muslims need to wake up and smell the coffee, I mean the modern world.

The land of Palestine and Israel should be renamed Canaan, the original name of the land before the time of the Jews and Muslims. All the people living there must be christianized. That should solve this never ending bruh-ha-ha between Jews and the Palestinians.
I agree on the point religion is not factual factor to claim any land.
why it should be renamed to Canaan, isn't that continuation to religion and reminiscent to archaic times? you in favor of modern world no? you should reconsider retreat from this stance.

israel is recognized state. oddly some 'religious' jews consider it anti thesis to religion. so far is secular, democratic state in part. hopefully won't lose that tiny component that allows me to breath. otherwise I would have not support it. and I do live there. Christianized??? is same lady in different dress. why not advocating for atheism? is not that suitable for the modern world?
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

Yohan
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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ygalg wrote:I agree on the point religion is not factual factor to claim any land.
why it should be renamed to Canaan, isn't that continuation to religion and reminiscent to archaic times? you in favor of modern world no? you should reconsider retreat from this stance.

israel is recognized state. oddly some 'religious' jews consider it anti thesis to religion. so far is secular, democratic state in part. hopefully won't lose that tiny component that allows me to breath. otherwise I would have not support it. and I do live there. Christianized??? is same lady in different dress. why not advocating for atheism? is not that suitable for the modern world?
I thought Canaan is a neutral name with a historic presence for the region. You can pick any neutral name.

Apart from your claims about Israel, it is peculiar in its own way. Any jew from anywhere is considered its citizen, and its democracy is tilted heavily towards jews, as you know.

Most people wouldn't want to be atheists. People prefer a religious association. I picked Christianity because the modern world evolved in Christendom, and is similar to the two religions fighting there, so probably the most suited for the factions. More importantly it is a religion with no hangups that interfere with one's life, unlike in Islam, and Judaism.

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ygalg
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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Yohan wrote: I thought Canaan is a neutral name with a historic presence for the region. You can pick any neutral name.

Apart from your claims about Israel, it is peculiar in its own way. Any jew from anywhere is considered its citizen, and its democracy is tilted heavily towards jews, as you know.

Most people wouldn't want to be atheists. People prefer a religious association. I picked Christianity because the modern world evolved in Christendom, and is similar to the two religions fighting there, so probably the most suited for the factions. More importantly it is a religion with no hangups that interfere with one's life, unlike in Islam, and Judaism.
the three abrahamic regard it the holy land. neutral name will be planet earth.

democracy invented by the Greeks for the Greeks. not for the entire human race.
peculiar as it as created to be home for the jews first and foremost. that's why it exist.

these who became citizens of israel share almost same entitlements and obligation. there are expectations. Arabs for instance; most don't pay taxes. and do not be obligated to serve in the army. I have stated "democratic state in part" not in whole.

then you disregard historical facts. christianity was very much involved in interfering one's life.

people alienation from religion or turn it margin to the point it became symbolic. the separation of religion and state brought the end of christian interference and that paved the way to modern world.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

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the separation of religion and state brought the end of christian interference and that paved the way to modern world.
Correct.

Yohan
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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by Yohan »

Gauge123 wrote:
the separation of religion and state brought the end of christian interference and that paved the way to modern world.
Correct.
The concept of the separation of church and state evolved in Christendom, because it was derived from that famous teaching of Christ separating the two - Ceasar and the God.

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by Gauge123 »

Give unto Caesar....

Yes. You have a valid point Yohan.

Thank you for reminding me.

Gauge

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by Bob »

The more I read about the Palestinians the more confused I get about who they are, or were. In any case, could anyone answer these simple questions please?

1) When was Palestine created?
2) What was its capital?
3) Where were its borders?
4) Did any country have diplomatic relations (e.g. an Embassy) in Palestine?
5) Did Palestine have an Embassy in any foreign country?
6) What type of government did Palestine have?
7) Can anyone name a Palestinian 'head of state' before Arafat?
8) What was the name of the Palestinian currency?
9) Can anyone name a Palestinian work of literature of any sort produced before 1948?
10) Since the Palestinian nation does not really exist now what caused the Palestinian nation to disappear in the first place?

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Re: Who are the Palestinians?

Post by StrongLove »

We know from genetics that everyone came from Africa. So people who live everywhere else in the entire world are immigrants. Everyone.

The Jews aren't going to leave Israel voluntarily. The muslim world can make peace with them if they want peace, but they don't. islam needs to be constantly defended. Religions, nations or peoples built on a lie have to fight off truth perpetually because truth never goes away. This is why so many muslims are overly aggressive douche-bags. .They feel like they are constantly being challenged & they ARE! But not by you or me, by reality, by the truth. So they have to assault, they have to repress, they have to contain & control all the time. Both within & externally.


I believe this is self evident. Both historical & present day behavior reveal the truth about islamic mentality.
Last edited by StrongLove on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

Winston Churchill

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