Erdogan ...Turkey

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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manfred
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Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by manfred »

Well. Erdogan has won the election'.... outright even.... odd though, that the opinion polls got it so wrong.... often that suggests some degree of electoral fraud.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34694420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there any hope of Turkey returning to be a reasonably secular state?

Erdogan has reason to throw a party.... 3 billion Euro in bribes to "control" migrant flow (well he controlled it all along...), EU membership fast tracked, and now this... I wonder if all these strange windfalls will go to his head and he will declare himself the anti-calif....
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Ibn Rushd
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ibn Rushd »

I make it a point to never pay attention to opinion polls, as they are trying to sway the real vote, and so many people fudge their results on those polls.

But I suspect that polls in Turkey are designed to "look nice" to Westerners so they don't look too closely at the rot.
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Fernando
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Re: Turkey

Post by Fernando »

The only consolation is that Erdogan is likely to over-play his hand and make it clear that Turkey isn't fit to join the EU. Drifting into dictatorship is talked of.
http://www.thenational.scot/world/profi ... rship.9500
Mind you, you could say that of the EU itself.
A good article, putting Erdogan's success down, ultimately, to Ataturk's failure to secularise Turkish education, here:
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/ ... mic-state/
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

simple1
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Re: Turkey

Post by simple1 »

So we have Turkey defend it-self even if Turkey is not under treat at all, but any non-western alliance is not allow? And a Russia man/pilot is worth-lesser than anyone in western alliance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 48rD7-ltLw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Everything have to be base on what the U.S. say, if the U.S. say you are a terrorist then you are terrorist, but if they say you are a moderate-terrorists then you have the right to defend itself.

What a laugh? So basically U.S. are saying they run the world, you do what I say or else!

Where is the logic?

Do as I say, not as I do!
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/rescued- ... ing_112015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What’s ironic about this situation, is that a Turkish jet was shot down 3 years ago by Syrian forces for violating their airspace, and Prime Minister Erdogan complained that A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack.” Turkish aircraft have also violated Greek airspace countless times in the past. Even if Turkey’s assertions are true, they clearly can’t take the moral high ground on this one.
So because we are the U.S. ally when we Turkey violated your airspace or border it is O.K., but anyone not in support of the U.S. domination they cannot fly anywhere and violating our airspace will equal having you kill.

simple1
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Re: Turkey

Post by simple1 »

We are wondering which side the U.S. and the west is on when they know full well that Turkey and Islamic State and doing oil business in and out of Turkey, Iraq or the middle-east.


'Broad anti-terrorist coalition’: Putin, Hollande decide to join forces in fighting ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mYoTsr_DQo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Say in the vide by Putin: The Russian have fully inform the U.S. before the bombing operation, so the U.S. and Turkey know full well where exactly the Russian bomber is flying and they ambush it to stop Russia from bombing Islamic-State.

simple1
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Re: Turkey

Post by simple1 »

Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HyKFpEl95w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS by TYT you tube channel. So even the pro-Turkey journalists is saying Turkey as a U.S. NATO ally is helping ISIS and U.S./NATO a still pretending they don't know anything about Turkey helping Islamic-State?

Now one have to wonder which side are the U.S. is on? Are the U.S./NATO ready fighting against Islamic-State or is Islamic-State are monster created by the U.S. finanical Elites to overthrow Syria Assad government?

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manfred
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Re: Turkey

Post by manfred »

simple1 wrote:Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HyKFpEl95w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS by TYT you tube channel. So even the pro-Turkey journalists is saying Turkey as a U.S. NATO ally is helping ISIS and U.S./NATO a still pretending they don't know anything about Turkey helping Islamic-State?

Now one have to wonder which side are the U.S. is on? Are the U.S./NATO ready fighting against Islamic-State or is Islamic-State are monster created by the U.S. finanical Elites to overthrow Syria Assad government?

To this one we can add the expected reaction of Erdogan's regime: Two journalists who dared to publish some evidence as to the Turkish government buying oil from ISIS and the weapon smuggling, end up in jail for "spying"....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-2 ... t-syrian-r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of Turkish president Recep Erdogan's key contentions in the ongoing diplomatic spat with Russia is that everything that Russia has accused Turkey of doing, from funding the Islamic State's oil purchases, to providing weapons for Syrian "rebels" intent on eradicating the Assad regime, is unfounded slander without a shred of evidence.

Here is the problem: evidence does exist, as we showed two days ago, when we presented the role Erdogan's son Bilal has played in ISIS oil transit, and not only that but also proof that Turkey has been smuggling weapons to Syria as the editor and a reporter from Turkey's Cumhuriyet newspaper showed some time ago.

And in order to eradicate the evidence against him, yesterday Erdogan did what every dictator does when feeling threatened: he had the editor and his reporter detained, jailed and accused of espionage precisely over the controversial story about an alleged arms shipment from Turkish intelligence to Syrian rebels.

The two Cumhuriyet journalists were accused of “political or military spying” by reporting “classified information” and “deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

I think it is high time that Turkey's membership with NATO is reviewed. Do we really want to be obliged by treaty to provide military help to such a regime, one that plays a double game, in effect supporting terrorists? And then they start a confrontation with Russia because they are in the way of Erdogan's real aim: he wants either ISIS or the West remove Assad, so that he can "come to the rescue" and annex Syria, step by step rebuilding the Ottoman empire.

Suppose the Russia incident repeats itself and Russia retaliates. Do we really then all merrily go to war with Russia over the idiot in Ankara?

I hope our dimwitted leaders will at least see this danger coming and stop it dead by kicking Turkey out of NATO very quickly. Then let's see if Erdogan is still keen on practising a grouse shoot with Russian jets.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

simple1
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Re: Turkey

Post by simple1 »

manfred wrote:
simple1 wrote:Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HyKFpEl95w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS by TYT you tube channel. So even the pro-Turkey journalists is saying Turkey as a U.S. NATO ally is helping ISIS and U.S./NATO a still pretending they don't know anything about Turkey helping Islamic-State?

Now one have to wonder which side are the U.S. is on? Are the U.S./NATO ready fighting against Islamic-State or is Islamic-State are monster created by the U.S. finanical Elites to overthrow Syria Assad government?

To this one we can add the expected reaction of Erdogan's regime: Two journalists who dared to publish some evidence as to the Turkish government buying oil from ISIS and the weapon smuggling, end up in jail for "spying"....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-2 ... t-syrian-r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of Turkish president Recep Erdogan's key contentions in the ongoing diplomatic spat with Russia is that everything that Russia has accused Turkey of doing, from funding the Islamic State's oil purchases, to providing weapons for Syrian "rebels" intent on eradicating the Assad regime, is unfounded slander without a shred of evidence.

Here is the problem: evidence does exist, as we showed two days ago, when we presented the role Erdogan's son Bilal has played in ISIS oil transit, and not only that but also proof that Turkey has been smuggling weapons to Syria as the editor and a reporter from Turkey's Cumhuriyet newspaper showed some time ago.

And in order to eradicate the evidence against him, yesterday Erdogan did what every dictator does when feeling threatened: he had the editor and his reporter detained, jailed and accused of espionage precisely over the controversial story about an alleged arms shipment from Turkish intelligence to Syrian rebels.

The two Cumhuriyet journalists were accused of “political or military spying” by reporting “classified information” and “deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

I think it is high time that Turkey's membership with NATO is reviewed. Do we really want to be obliged by treaty to provide military help to such a regime, one that plays a double game, in effect supporting terrorists? And then they start a confrontation with Russia because they are in the way of Erdogan's real aim: he wants either ISIS or the West remove Assad, so that he can "come to the rescue" and annex Syria, step by step rebuilding the Ottoman empire.

Suppose the Russia incident repeats itself and Russia retaliates. Do we really then all merrily go to war with Russia over the idiot in Ankara?

I hope our dimwitted leaders will at least see this danger coming and stop it dead by kicking Turkey out of NATO very quickly. Then let's see if Erdogan is still keen on practising a grouse shoot with Russian jets.
I doubt Turkey will shoot down Russian jet alone without U.S. backing. Turkey can be just another proxy for the master behind him. When come to blame everyone go to Turkey, but do we ready think Turkey will acted alone?

We are still waiting for evidence that Turkey warned Russian bomber?

And even if it did warn it is all necessary to shoot it down? When we have Turkey say it was OK for them to violate other countries airspace:
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/rescued- ... ing_112015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What’s ironic about this situation, is that a Turkish jet was shot down 3 years ago by Syrian forces for violating their airspace, and Prime Minister Erdogan complained that A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack.” Turkish aircraft have also violated Greek airspace countless times in the past. Even if Turkey’s assertions are true, they clearly can’t take the moral high ground on this one.
Everyone in the world know Russia was aiming for Islamic-State, and Russia have informed the U.S. before they launch the bomber base on Putin words. It seem to me Erdogan might be angry about Russia bombing Turkey & Islamic-State oil business. I hear/read roomer that Erdogan family or relative was making profit off Islamic-State oil business and Russia bombing have phased that money train. Don't know it is true or not, just roomers.

Anyway shooting that Russian bomber down was pretty stupid by Turkey.

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Fernando
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Re: Turkey

Post by Fernando »

simple1 wrote: I hear/read roomer that Erdogan family or relative was making profit off Islamic-State oil business and Russia bombing have phased that money train. Don't know it is true or not, just roomers.
I've heard/read that too. Of course, al Assad is supposed to be at the same game as well, though probablyI just to get the oil rather than the money - I suppose that's "cutting off your nose to feed your face."
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: Turkey

Post by Fernando »

This would be funny, if it weren't a further sign of the autocracy that cost a man his job:
Turkish judge orders investigation into whether comparing Turkish President Erdogan with Gollum is offensive
Insulting the president is a crime punishable by prison in Turkey
A case involving a man accused of insulting Turkey's President Erdogan has led a judge to order a character assessment of Gollum from Lord of the Rings.

Bilgin Ciftci, a physician, was reportedly expelled from the Public Health Institution of Turkey in October after allegedly sharing a meme in which President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s facial expressions were compared to those made by the fictional character.
Failing to come to a decision in court, the judge ordered an investigation to decide whether or not an insult had been made against the president, the Today’s Zaman newspaper reported.

It came after the judge reportedly admitted to only having seen parts of the Lord of the Rings films in which Gollum features.
It is believed that two academics, two behavioural scientists and an expert on cinema and television productions will be involved in examining the character, who first featured in JRR Tolkien’s book, The Hobbit, in 1937.
I''d have thought the behavioural scientists would be better employed examining Ergogan.
(There are images of the pair in the linked article)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 56856.html
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: Turkey

Post by manfred »

:lotpot:

Image

How unkind ... Gollum is much more handsome and likeable. But they have a certain trait of insincerity in common, so maybe that is why.

But I doubt Gollum had the same level of personal insecurity and would feel the need to throw anyone into prison who compares him to Erdogan....
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Mr Tayyip Erdogan is angry. Someone in Gemany made fun of him, and mister Tayyip Erdogan does not like that.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry summoned Germany's ambassador last week . The ambassador, Martin Erdmann, was called to the ministry over the NDR broadcast on March 17 that featured a two-minute satirical song mocking Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan,

The German Foreign Ministry declined to comment. Turkish officials could not immediately be reached to comment.

Erdogan is known for his sensitivity to criticism. Turkish prosecutors have opened nearly 2,000 cases against people for insulting Erdogan since he became president 18 months ago, the country's justice minister said this month. They include cartoonists, academics and even schoolchildren.

And what's all is the fuss about ?
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manfred
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Re: Turkey

Post by manfred »

This may very well be a sign of things to come... 6 billion a year, visa free travel, fast tack EU membership... all this spells out to Erdogan, the EU will soon be the new Ottoman empire with him being the Sultan. He already built himself a palace to rival Topkapi, the old Sultan's hangout.

Essentially he is testing how far he can push things. Can he control the media in Germany as he does in Turkey? Well, he is damn well going to try, and who knows, he may even be successful. That means he can stake his aims even higher. What next, a Turkish adviser in the Bundestag to tell them what they may even discuss? Compulsory Islamic studies for a school kids in the EU and unless the course has been passed, no access to University or any kind of public job? Hijab for all women in Germany? Christian must wear odd shoes as in the Ottoman empire? The more he is given the more he will want. Remember Chamberlain and Hitler?

Hopefully our dear politicians come to their senses before too long.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

manfred wrote:
Hopefully our dear politicians come to their senses before too long.
I hope so, but I won't hold my breath. Erdogan is no stranger to provocation. In a speech in Cologne in 2008, Erdogan said Turks in Germany cannot be expected to 'assimilate' and deny their Turkish identity. And so it happened. He also called for Turkish schools in Germany and dual citizenship.

I am sure mother Theresa Angela is going to fulfil all his wishes and desires.

BTW, I changed the video. It has now English subtitles.
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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Image
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

The Dutch cartoonist Ruben Oppenheimer created an Erdogan cartoon pictering Erdogan who has sex with twitter. Political Correct Facebook did not like the cartoon, and removed it from facebook.

This is the cartoon.

Image

Rubin Oppenheimer got P.....off and created this cartoon.

Image
So better Facebook? He twittert....

And this is the reaction from Facebook.
Image
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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

The “Erdogan the goat-f—-er.” is a quote from the German comedian Jan Böhmermann . He is now under police protection.
Thursday’s edition of the weekly late-night show “Neo Magazin Royale” — where Böhmermann last month called Erdoğan a “pervert,” “zoophile” and a “goat-f—-er” — has been canceled, and Hamburger Morgenpost and Die Welt reported Tuesday that a police patrol car has been stationed outside the comic’s home in Cologne..

Turkey formally requested Germany file criminal charges against the comedian Sunday, the German government said Monday. The government is considering whether to charge Böhmermann with defaming a foreign head of state, putting Chancellor Angela Merkel in a difficult position as she tries to keep Turkey onside to deal with Europe’s migration crisis.

Böhmermann and production company btf GmbH announced on Facebook Tuesday that Thursday’s edition of Neo Magazin Royale has been canceled.

“The reason is the massive coverage and the associated focus on the program and the host,” the post read.

The decision was reportedly taken in coordination with ZDF, the public broadcaster of Neo Magazin Royale.

http://www.politico.eu/article/jan-boeh ... n-germany/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Insulting Erdogan: Merkel Falls Flat over a Satirical Poem
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
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manfred
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Re: Turkey

Post by manfred »

German comic under police protection over Erdogan poem

A German comedian has been placed under police protection after reading a crude poem about Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on television.

A police car was parked in front of Jan Böhmermann’s house, although it was not immediately clear if a concrete threat had been made against him.

German newspaper Bild website reported that the satirist and his family were allegedly facing a threat from the Turkish president’s supporters.

Mr Erdogan has filed a criminal complaint as a private individual to the highest court in the land against the satirist, the Turkish president’s German lawyer told broadcaster ZDF on Tuesday night.

German prosecutors are looking into whether he broke a law against insulting foreign leaders.

Mr Böhmermann read the poem making references to sex with sheep and accusing the Turkish president of “slapping Christians while watching child porn” on his Neo Magazin Royale programme on March 31.

He emphasised that it included material that broke German laws on free speech - section 103 of the criminal code prohibits insulting organs or representatives of foreign states.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... ogan-poem/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lotpot:

This is causing quite a stir in Germany and Mutti Merkel is panicking in case her newly found best pal decides to take the six billion and then go back in the deal....

And Erdogan, not exactly being the smartest knife in the drawer, did not bother to look at how this "poem" was introduced: "If someone WERE to read a poem like this then it could well be seen as offensive." So the commedian rather cleverly, I assume on the advice of lawyers, make it clear that he is merely presenting and example of what could be an "offensive" poem, showing people what "not" to do.

If I say to a shopkeeper in advance: "I am picking this up and walk with it through the door, to show my students at what point I would commit a theft.", I cannot be persecuted for theft even if the shopkeeper did not like what I did, as long as I return the item. Similarly, if you say "I THINK Cameron is corrupt" I cannot be sued as I merely gave an opinion. Also stating " Saying 'Cameron is a corrupt politician' without having proof is an example of slander" is not a civil offence, at it is a hypothetical case, and that will be the comedian's defence.

So, as expected Erdogan now thinks of Germany as a sort of Turkish colony, where he can dictate to people what they may show on TV. I doubt his persecution will amount to anything. But you can never know, it certainly will be a barometer case for free speech in Germany.


Erdogan is not the first who furiously went after poets and satirists ... I guess he learnt that from Mohammed.
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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

manfred wrote: Erdogan is not the first who furiously went after poets and satirists ... I guess he learnt that from Mohammed.
It is not very clever of him to make such a fuss over a few cartoons and a poem. Lots of people from all over Europe are making fun of him now.

Image

But... :ohmy: In the mean time, Mr Erdogan and his cronies are blackmailing Europe. They want vise-free travel to the EU by June, or otherwise the refugee deal might be over.
If the EU does not quickly abolish visa requirements for Turks is there may be a line through the refugee agreement between Turkey and the EU. That threat raised by the Turkish Minister for EU Affairs Volkan Bozkir during a visit to Vienna, the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet reported.

,, If the EU do not allow visa-free travel, we can cancel the agreement, '' said Bozkir.,, This is a bargain. '' The minister said he expected a day earlier that the visa requirement will disappear by June, but Kati Piri, the Turkey rapporteur in the European Parliament, is considerably more skeptical.,, Turkey has shown progress in the past two years. However, there are still technical issues to be resolved before a visa can go. I do not think that will happen by June.

http://www.hotrecentnews.com/en/news/tu ... -visa/8735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Turkey

Post by pr126 »

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out whom you are not allowed to criticise" - Voltaire
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