Erdogan ...Turkey

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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Ariel
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Re: Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Merkel was left with the final decision on whether Germany’s state prosecutor should start proceedings against Böhmermann after Erdoğan requested the comedian be prosecuted. And she said YES...PROSECUTE him. Give his head on a golden plate to my friend Recep Tayyip Erdoğan..
The cartoon for today.

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manfred
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Re: Turkey

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When Erdogan is criticised about press freedom or indeed anything, he tells people to keep their noses out of internal Turkish affairs. So the response of the German government should have been to first point out that the government has no intention to comment or interfere with satirical TV and that Turkey should not interfere in the internal affairs of Germany.

The actual response is a disgrace not soon forgotten even in Germany. It means that satirical comedy in Germany is effectively dead. There has been a long post-war tradition of programmes such as that, about many politicians and public figures. The comedian has achieved one of this declared aims, though: to show where the limits of free speech are. They are reached with Muslim leaders. They cannot be made fun of.

BTW, did Mutti Merkel ever wonder why no attempts at law suits were raised in Russia when Putin called Erdogan a tin-pot dictator? Could it because there he would get the reply it deserves?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: Turkey

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:Putin called Erdogan a tin-pot dictator
Tin-pot kettle black.
Sorry, couldn't resist it. I'll get my coat.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: Turkey

Post by manfred »

Fernando wrote:
manfred wrote:Putin called Erdogan a tin-pot dictator
Tin-pot kettle black.
Sorry, couldn't resist it. I'll get my coat.
:lol:
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Ariel
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Ariel »

What is the matter with Facebook. They keep deleting cartoons and videos of the dictator Erdogan.
Today another cartoon of the Dutch cartoonist Ruben Oppenheimer was deleted, and also this video of the Dutch Annabel Nanninga over Erdogan
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Fernando
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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The UK political magazine The Spectatore has started an Erdogan poetry prize. Entries have to be as derogatory and obscene as possible. It started as a joke by Douglas Murray, with no prize, but thanks to a donation of £1000 says it's not the most valuable poetry prize in the world and that it's attracted thousands of entries from all over the world including a surprising number in Arabic. Several well-known people have been enlisted as judges.
After a happy 48 hours I had come up with a pretty good limerick which foully smeared not only President Erdogan but also his German counterpart for being his handmaiden. This latter point, I might add, is not expressed delicately in my work. Then on Monday, via The Spectator’s website, I launched the ‘President Erdogan Insulting Poetry Competition’, humbly presenting my own work and encouraging readers to do better (or worse). There are some strict rules. Although limericks are preferred (what insult cannot be included in that delicate and beautiful form?) this is not to say that long-form entries in iambic pentameter or heroic couplets will be entirely discounted. But it is well to keep these things within manageable limits. I have also stressed that all entries must be (a) wholly defamatory and (b) utterly obscene. Any that are not will be disqualified automatically.

Well, the entries immediately started flooding in, despite the fact that I had stressed that there was no prize other than our continuing freedoms. The following morning a reader got in touch and kindly offered a £1,000 prize. So we are away! The flood has become a deluge. Poems are pouring in from around the world (including Erdogan’s own country). Some debated the size of his manhood, others mulled on his sexual practices, others suggested (as Böhmermann had done) that his relations with the animal kingdom are not so innocent as they might seem. Although the competition is open to all, I would favour a German or Turkish entrant. Entries should be sent to theeditor@spectator.co.uk, under the heading ‘The President Erdogan Offensive Poetry Competition’. I have set a deadline of 23 June, as we may not be allowed to announce the winner after that date.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/send ... mpetition/
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Ariel
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Merkel admits 'error' in Erdogan satire row

With hindsight, it was an error," Merkel told regional officials meeting in Berlin, adding that the remark could have given the impression that "freedom of opinion is not important, that freedom of the press is not important".
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Ariel
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Hahahahaha. A new cartoon van Oppenheimer . The Facebook moderation team.

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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

Ariel wrote:Hahahahaha. A new cartoon van Oppenheimer . The Facebook moderation team.

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Each and every one of them waiting for the knife at their throats.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Fernando
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

The Express claims that - if its Russian source is to be believed - Turkey is secretly trading weapons for IS's looted oil. Big ifs but the implications are horrific.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/665 ... il-weapons
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Ariel
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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Fernando wrote:The Express claims that - if its Russian source is to be believed - Turkey is secretly trading weapons for IS's looted oil. Big ifs but the implications are horrific.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/665 ... il-weapons
Yes..And it is not only Russia who claims Turkey is secretly trading weapons for IS's looted oil. The son of Erdogan it seems is the man who makes the export sales of ISIS-controlled oil possible. This is known for a while now. They have evidence.
Bilal Erdogan owns several maritime companies. He has allegedly signed contracts with European operating companies to carry Iraqi stolen oil to different Asian countries. The Turkish government buys Iraqi plundered oil which is being produced from the Iraqi seized oil wells. Bilal Erdogan’s maritime companies own special wharfs in Beirut and Ceyhan ports that are transporting ISIS’ smuggled crude oil in Japan-bound oil tankers.

In October 2014 US Vice President Joe Biden told a Harvard gathering that Erdoğan’s regime was backing ISIS with “hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons…” Biden later apologized clearly for tactical reasons to get Erdoğan’s permission to use Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, but the dimensions of Erdoğan’s backing for ISIS since revealed is far, far more than Biden hinted.

Erdoğan’s involvement in ISIS goes much deeper. At a time when Washington, Saudi Arabia and even Qatar appear to have cut off their support for ISIS, they remaining amazingly durable. The reason appears to be the scale of the backing from Erdoğan and his fellow neo-Ottoman Sunni Islam Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoğlu.

Nice Family Business

The prime source of money feeding ISIS these days is sale of Iraqi oil from the Mosul region oilfields where they maintain a stronghold. The son of Erdoğan it seems is the man who makes the export sales of ISIS-controlled oil possible.

Bilal Erdoğan owns several maritime companies. He has allegedly signed contracts with European operating companies to carry Iraqi stolen oil to different Asian countries. The Turkish government buys Iraqi plundered oil which is being produced from the Iraqi seized oil wells. Bilal Erdoğan’s maritime companies own special wharfs in Beirut and Ceyhan ports that are transporting ISIS’ smuggled crude oil in Japan-bound oil tankers.

Gürsel Tekin vice-president of the Turkish Republican Peoples’ Party, CHP, declared in a recent Turkish media interview, “President Erdoğan claims that according to international transportation conventions there is no legal infraction concerning Bilal’s illicit activities and his son is doing an ordinary business with the registered Japanese companies, but in fact Bilal Erdoğan is up to his neck in complicity with terrorism, but as long as his father holds office he will be immune from any judicial prosecution.” Tekin adds that Bilal’s maritime company doing the oil trades for ISIS, BMZ Ltd, is “a family business and president Erdoğan’s close relatives hold shares in BMZ and they misused public funds and took illicit loans from Turkish banks.”

In addition to son Bilal’s illegal and lucrative oil trading for ISIS, Sümeyye Erdoğan, the daughter of the Turkish President apparently runs a secret hospital camp inside Turkey just over the Syrian border where Turkish army trucks daily being in scores of wounded ISIS Jihadists to be patched up and sent back to wage the bloody Jihad in Syria, according to the testimony of a nurse who was recruited to work there until it was discovered she was a member of the Alawite branch of Islam, the same as Syrian President Bashar al-Assad who Erdoğan seems hell-bent on toppling.

Turkish citizen Ramazan Başol, captured this month by Kurdish People’s Defence Units,YPG, as he attempted to join ISIS from Konya province, told his captors that said he was sent to ISIS by the ‘İsmail Ağa Sect,’ a strict Turkish Islam sect reported to be tied to Recep Erdoğan. Başol said the sect recruits members and provides logistic support to the radical Islamist organization. He added that the Sect gives jihad training in neighborhoods of Konya and sends those trained here to join ISIS gangs in Syria.

According to French geopolitical analyst, Thierry Meyssan, Recep Erdoğan “organised the pillage of Syria, dismantled all the factories in Aleppo, the economic capital, and stole the machine-tools. Similarly, he organised the theft of archeological treasures and set up an international market in Antioch…with the help of General Benoît Puga, Chief of Staff for the Elysée, he organised a false-flag operation intended to provoke the launching of a war by the Atlantic Alliance – the chemical bombing of la Ghoutta in Damascus, in August 2013. “

Meyssan claims that the Syria strategy of Erdoğan was initially secretly developed in coordination with former French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé and Erdoğan’s then Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, in 2011, after Juppe won a hesitant Erdoğan to the idea of supporting the attack on traditional Turkish ally Syria in return for a promise of French support for Turkish membership in the EU. France later backed out, leaving Erdoğan to continue the Syrian bloodbath largely on his own using ISIS.

Gen. John R. Allen, an opponent of Obama’s Iran peace strategy, now US diplomatic envoy coordinating the coalition against the Islamic State, exceeded his authorized role after meeting with Erdoğan and “promised to create a « no-fly zone » ninety miles wide, over Syrian territory, along the whole border with Turkey, supposedly intended to help Syrian refugees fleeing from their government, but in reality to apply the « Juppé-Wright plan ». The Turkish Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoğlu, revealed US support for the project on the TV channel A Haber by launching a bombing raid against the PKK.” Meyssan adds.

There are never winners in war and Erdoğan’s war against Syria’s Assad demonstrates that in bold. Turkey and the world deserve better. Ahmet Davutoğlu’s famous “Zero Problems With Neighbors” foreign policy has been turned into massive problems with all neighbors due to the foolish ambitions of Erdoğan and his gang.

F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.
First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2015/08/24/erdog ... sis-games/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Fernando
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

So in addition to money laundering we have oil laundering and weapon laundering. Not to mention truth laundering.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Ariel
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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Fernando wrote:So in addition to money laundering we have oil laundering and weapon laundering. Not to mention truth laundering.
Turkey and Erdogan are not to be trusted. He is intimidating the Turks who live in Holland . They are not allowed to do business with Kurds. Turkey is not any longer a democracy, it is under a dictatorship that is why his people have been refused access to the internet, and many who have disagreed with Erdogan have been imprisoned.

And on top of it , a Turkey's parliament speaker has said the Muslim majority country needs a religious constitution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... stitution/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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The dhimmi Eurocrats are fudging the issue again to appease Erdogan
EU Commission to bow to Turkey's visa demands this week despite it not fulfulling criteria amid Brussels 'panic' over migration crisis
Plans to give visa-free travel to Europe for 75million people from Turkey are set to be given the go-ahead this week despite Ankara not fulfilling all of its criteria.

The European Commission is expected to recommend the move on Wednesday despite deep public misgivings in some countries.

In an apparent panic over attempts to tackle the migrant crisis, it has asked EU governments and the European Parliament to approve the decision by the end of June.

But Turkey has not yet fully complied with an agreement to introduce 72 pieces of legislation to qualify for the waiver scheme.
An EU source told EUobserver: 'They [the commission] will issue a positive recommendation.

'But it remains to be seen what kind of legal formulas and tricks they will use to justify the move.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z47VgL2PT0
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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This will make other countries who also want visa free access get very angry, and if will show up the EU as weak and without backbone as it is. Why not, Ukraine, Moldova, Russia, China, India, in fact anybody?

It will also convince a lot of undecided voters in the UK that it is high time for Brexit.
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

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One word: globalisation.
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Ariel »

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has abruptly announced that he will step down, leaving the door open for Turkey’s controversial President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to continue consolidating power. The resignation could spell further trouble between Turkey, which is crucial to managing the Syrian refugee crisis and the fight against ISIS, and its relations with the United States and Europe.

The decision came after an hour and a half meeting between Davutoglu and Erdogan, who have had increasingly public spats for weeks. Chief among their differences is the fate of Turkey’s constitution.

Erdogan wants to change Turkey’s constitution and move towards an executive presidency, effectively pushing aside the Prime Minister who is, under Turkey’s current constitution, the head of government. Davutoglu, a bookish former professor hand-picked by Erdogan when he himself was forced out of the role of prime minister due to term limits, offered only lukewarm support for the plan.
Yesterday, the leaders of the EU were still positive and they thought that not much would change now Ahmet Davutoglu had left the building. Erdogan would keep his promise. But oh dear... :whistling: What happened today. Erdogan takes a tough EU line after his PM quits
Turkey's president has told the EU it will not change its anti-terror laws in return for visa-free travel.

"We'll go our way, you go yours," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

The EU says Turkey needs to narrow its definition of terrorism to qualify for visa-free travel - which is part of a larger deal between the sides aimed at easing Europe's migration crisis.

Mr Erdogan was speaking a day after PM Ahmet Davutoglu, who largely negotiated the EU deal, said he was stepping down.

Mr Davutoglu had also reportedly opposed Mr Erdogan's plan to give more power to the presidency. Mr Erdogan said the proposed constitutional changes were a national need, not a personal requirement.

The wide-ranging EU-Turkey deal involves the return of migrants, mainly Syrians, from Greece to Turkey, along with increased aid and other measures.

One of these is to allow Turkish citizens visa-free travel for short stays in the EU's Schengen area which comprises 22 EU and four non-EU members.

However, the EU wants Turkey to narrow its broad definition of terrorism to match tighter EU standards. It is one of five EU criteria Turkey still has to agree to in order to meet the visa-free requirements.

Mr Erdogan rejected this, saying in a televised speech on Friday: "Turkey, when it's under attack from terrorist organisations from all sides, the European Union is telling us to change the anti-terror law in exchange for the visa deal."

Referring to tents erected by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, near the EU parliament in Brussels, Mr Erdogan said: "You [the EU] will let terrorists build tents and provide them with opportunities in the name of democracy.

"And then [you] will tell us 'if you change this [anti-terrorism legislation], I will lift the visas'. Sorry, we'll go our way, you go yours."

BBC Turkey correspondent Mark Lowen says Mr Erdogan's hard rhetoric will please his support base but will alarm European leaders.

In recent months, he says, the government has used the terms "terrorist" or "terrorist supporter" to prosecute critics including journalists, suggesting they are supporting Kurdish militants or other armed organisations.

If Mr Erdogan does not meet the EU requirements, the European Parliament and EU leaders will not vote on the visa waiver at the end of June and, our correspondent says, the whole deal could fall apart.

Key points of Turkey-EU agreement
Returns: All "irregular migrants" crossing from Turkey into Greece from 20 March will be sent back. Each arrival will be individually assessed by the Greek authorities

One-for-one: For each Syrian returned to Turkey, a Syrian migrant will be resettled in the EU. Priority will be given to those who have not tried to illegally enter the EU and the number is capped at 72,000

Visa restrictions: Turkish nationals should have access to the Schengen passport-free zone by June. This will not apply to non-Schengen countries like Britain. Turkey must meet certain criteria

Financial aid: The EU is to speed up the allocation of €3bn ($3.3 bn; £2.3 bn) in aid to Turkey to help migrants.
Turkey EU membership: Both sides agreed to "re-energise" Turkey's bid to join the European bloc, with talks due by July.
The Turkey-EU statement in full

Another part of the EU-Turkey deal had been to hold new talks on Turkish accession to the EU.

But analysts say Mr Erdogan has been less convinced of EU alignment than Mr Davutoglu, and he will certainly be a tougher negotiator.

On Thursday, Mr Davutoglu, who was hand-picked by Mr Erdogan to succeed him as head of the governing AK Party after Mr Erdogan was elected president in 2014, said he would not stand again as leader at an extraordinary party congress called for 22 May.

Our correspondent says Mr Davutoglu had not been the pliant PM Mr Erdogan had hoped for, and the resignation is a tightening of control by the president.

Five benchmarks still to be met by Turkey:

Corruption: Turkey must pass measures to prevent corruption, in line with EU recommendations

Data protection: It must align national legislation on personal data protection with EU standards

Europol: An agreement is to be concluded with the continent's law enforcement agency

Judicial cooperation: It must work with all EU members on criminal matters

Legislation on terrorism: Turkey is also required to bring its terror laws in line with European standards
Full European Commission Statement

The prime minister's unease with Mr Erdogan's plans to move to a presidential system, among other policies, had been evident in recent months.

In his speech, Mr Erdogan dismissed those who believe that, as president, he should stand aside from party politics.

He expressed his determination to put presidential reform to a referendum as soon as possible.

He said: "The presidential system issue is not Recep Tayyip Erdogan's personal request. The place in which Turkey has arrived as a result of its experiences has created an urgent need for both the presidential system and the new constitution."

Among those tipped as successors to Mr Davutoglu are Transport Minister Binali Yildirim, who is close to Mr Erdogan, and Energy Minister Berat Albayrak, who is the president's son-in-law.
I am curious what the EU is going to do now...
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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

Ariel wrote:I am curious what the EU is going to do now...
They'll give in. After all, they - like Cameron - are determined to let Turkey join the EU. All else is window-dressing.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

I'm enjoying listening to BBC's Radio 3 this evening. The BBC is risking all by broadcasting Mozart's Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail. The owner of said harem is described in the programme note as "a Turkish despot". Bang goes somebody's job! Or even the license fee!
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Re: Erdogan ...Turkey

Post by Fernando »

A depressing article about Turkey and the EU
Image

Is Turkey part of Europe? For most of our civilisation’s history, to have even asked such a question would have been to invite derision. The Ottomans were kept out of Europe not by some early-onset prejudice, but by the armies of Europe having to beat back their repeated invasions. The question became slightly more plausible a century ago with the rise of Ataturk and the modern Turkish state (one of the only successful efforts to reconcile the Islamic religion with state power). For a brief period around the turn of the millennium, some serious people (including the British government) supported Turkey joining the EU.

But today, the question has become academic — first because Turkey’s liberal trajectory long ago halted and began rolling backwards. And secondly because the country is now coming into Europe anyway. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish president, has persuaded the EU to grant visa-free travel to his 75 million countrymen inside Europe’s passport-free Schengen area. In so doing, he has made more progress than any of his predecessors. Using a combination of intimidation, threats and blackmail, he has succeeded in opening wide the doors of Europe.
<snip>
And what of Britain’s role in all this? Shortly after becoming Prime Minister in 2010, David Cameron went to Ankara and announced that he would do everything he could to ensure Turkey entered the EU. Speaking as a guest of Erdogan, Cameron announced: ‘Turkey deserves its place at the top table of European politics — and that is what I will fight for. I will remain your strongest possible advocate for EU membership and for greater influence.’

Our Prime Minister has been true to his word. Even while Erdogan’s government has done everything it could to demonstrate why it has no place in the EU, Cameron has insisted on extending the borders of Europe to Syria and Iraq. Only a few months ago in the Commons, he reconfirmed his government’s commitment to Turkish entry. Of course, now that the referendum is upon him, he says that it doesn’t matter what he thinks because the French will not allow Turkey to join. This puts the British Prime Minister in the strange position of citing the French government as the only force capable of saving him from his own views.
Plus much more - read on:http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/how- ... u-to-heel/
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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